Brahmsian

[chill319]

It took me a few listens, Eric. But it's really grown on me. There's also this saxophone player's study: http://www.archive.org/stream/threesymphonieso00kape#page/n3/mode/2up

[eschiss1]

Ah right, I think I downloaded that directly from the University of Florida's site (http://ufdcimages.uflib.ufl.edu/UF/00/09/93/60/00001/threesymphonieso00kape.pdf).

[John H White]

I would say that Parry was definitely in Brahmsian mode when he wrote his 4th Symphony but non of his other symphonies seem to have followed that style.

[eschiss1]

Hrm, how about other works by Parry though?

[Alan Howe]

Hrm, how about other works by Parry though?

Quite, Eric. there's certainly some Wagner in Symphony No.2 (e.g. 1st movement), although in a manner that sounds thoroughly absorbed rather than merely imitative - perhaps a bit like early Dvorak. Anyway, it's glorious! 

[eschiss1]

I admit I was thinking more of the choral and chamber works, even though I'm not that familiar with them. Hrm. Must listen to the Parry trio in B minor again though (did so recently- good piece, btw...) (Whether any of these works deserve the appellation Brahmsian in the senses I would think of - 2-against-3, "hemiola saturation", &c. (fans of the Performance Today "Piano Puzzler" or - well, also MacDonald's book I think..., or the 1950s Grove, or Schoenberg's article, or...- all of which rightly have a lot to say about this, though I think the first of these does so most entertainingly, oddly... - will know precisely what I mean... - well- or listen closely (texturally - rythmically) to his late piano works or his 2nd string quartet or, or, or... oh..erm..

anyway... well, whether any of these pieces by others &c, and how many,... are actually Brahmsian, rather than generically non-Lisztian late Romantic in a more general and generic sense - good question.) 

[John H White]

I would say that the opening movement of Parry's 4th symphony bears a similar relationship to the opening movement of Brahms's 3rd symphony to that between Mahler's and Rott's 1st Symphonies.

[John H White]

By the way, Parry seems to have been open to the influence of other composers beside Brahms. To me, the scherzo of his 3rd symphony bears an uncanny resemblance to the finale of Raff's 6th symphony.

[Alan Howe]

By the way, Parry seems to have been open to the influence of other composers beside Brahms.

I'm sure that's right. To label Parry simply as 'Brahmsian' is lazy in the extreme.

[FBerwald]

Tovey's Piano Concerto contains Brahmsian overtones

[chill319]

I've been listening to Gernsheim's Symphony 1 lately -- a glorious work of great originality. Old news to members of this forum, of course.

I hear a nod to Schubert's great C-Major in the finale, and also some features that I associate with Brahms, including a lyrical stepwise second theme with certain turns of phrase, rhythmic incisivenessin third themes, cogent developments.  But of course there were no symphonies by Brahms to emulate when Gernsheim 1 was written.

So what of its "Brahmsian" qualities? Were these learned from chamber works? Or is it possible that several composers, perhaps including Bruch, together created a mature romantic symphonic style between, say, 1865 and 1875 that Brahms made famous by extending it further than anyone else?

[Alan Howe]

I'm sure that there was a 'symphonic bridge' between Mendelssohn/Schumann and Brahms, involving such composers as Volkmann, Grimm, Reinecke, Dietrich and Gernsheim. Chris Fifield's forthcoming book should give us the answer...