Standard Symphonies

[chill319]

Eric, re "Loehr"... you're quite right, it's an O umlaut in the original. On my laptop when I used the alt key to type that character, I lost everything I had typed up to that line. My browser went to a home page, and there was no cache that could be restored. So I had to retype it again. I avoided a repeat of the same problem by using the oe substitution. Laptops with touch screens running Windows 8.1 have keyboard quirks that are new to me.

[eschiss1]

Gotcha and I sympathize there. Instead of trying to create diacritics that I don't have on my keyboard I usually just try to find (text, not image) pages with them and cut/paste...
BTW, interesting to see Ritter (Frédéric Louis Ritter on IMSLP) - 3 of his 4 symphonies (1, 2 and 4, according to the Ritter papers "Finding Aid"), I think- listed @ Upton.  The few Ritter works that were published were, typically, small-scale things- songs, organ works, what-have (and the vocal scores of some of his larger choral works, I think)- but they seem interesting enough to me anyway, and I hope to hear some of those unpublished works one of these days, preferably w/o time machine; that he also composed concertos, 4 symphonies, etc. etc. intrigues, as does the fact that 3 of the unpublished symphonies were, at least subjectively to Upton, considered worth including on a list of standard symphonies (I wasn't even aware until now that they'd done anything but gather dust, unlike some of, say, David Stanley Smith's unpublished works. (Maybe the one-movement third was unknown to him. Conversiwise the first symphony which he mentions isn't listed in the papers. Or... maybe the "3rd symphony" in one movement, in the finding aid is what he calls "symphony no.1 in A"? ... hrm... )

Arthur Bird - his symphony (which can be seen at least in reduction, maybe in full score also? at IMSLP) was published by Hainauer (a publisher which deserves, I think, much more written about it than it has received, but its founder, Julius Hainauer of Breslau has had a biography written that I've sort-of scanned - a very interesting fellow) --  I think I may have started a thread about either Bird or a work of his. Anyhow, many of his mss are at the US Library of Congress. (Not scanned/digitized (yet?), just are at.)

Re Reinecke, interestingly (did someone point this out and I'm just being redundantly repetitive again? Sorry...?) Hakon Jarl is -also- under the list of symphonies (and symphonic poems) in the book, I see... at least in the Google-scanned copy I'm, well, scanning.

[chill319]

Here is the rest of Upton's Appendix. Again, in my view the errors in the list (e.g., Edgar McDowell and Peter Iltitsch Tschaikowsky) are more a matter for smiles than frowns. Plus, forum members need never again wonder which was Mozart's "Swansong" symphony.

MAAS, LOUIS. American (1883).
McDOWELL, EDGAR A. Symphonic Poems: Hamlet (1884); Ophelia (1886).
McFARREN, GEORGE A. No. 1, C major (1828); No. 2, C minor (1829); No. 3. A minor (1830); No. 4, F minor (1831); No. 5, B flat (1833); No. 6, C sharp minor (1834); No. 7, D major (1836).
MENDELSSOHN, FELIX. No. 1, C minor (1824); No. 2, Lobgesang (1840); No. 3, A minor (Scotch) (1842); No. 4, A major (Italian) (1833); No. 5, D major (Reformation) (1830).
MOSKOWSKI, MORITZ. Symphonic Poem, Joan of Arc (1885).
MOZART, WOLFGANG AMADEUS. No. 338, C major (1780); No. 385, D major (Haffner) (1782); No. 425, C major (Linzer) (1783); No. 504, D major (1786); No. 543, E flat (Swan Song) (1788); No. 550, G minor (1788); No. 551, C major (Jupiter) (1788); and thirty-four others. The numbers refer to the Köchel Catalogue.
PAINE, JOHN KNOWLES. No. 1, C minor (1875); No. 2, A major (Spring) (1880); Symphonic Poem, The Tempest (1876).
PARRY, HUBERT. No. 1, G major (1882); No. 2, F major (University) (1883).
PRATT, S. G. No. 1, E minor (1870); No. 2, A major (The Prodigal Son) (1875); Symphonic Sketch, Magdalena's Lament (1870); Symphonic Suite, The Tempest (1885).
PROUT, EBENEZER. No 1, C major (1873); No. 2, G minor (1876); No. 3, F major (1885); No. 4, D major (1886).
RAFF, JOSEPH JOACHIM. No. 1, An das Vaterland (1863); No. 2, C major (1870); No. 3, F major (Im Walde) (1869); No. 4, G minor (1871); No. 5, (Leonore) (1872); No. 6, D minor (Gelebt, gestrebt, gelitten, gestritten, gestorben, umworben) (1876); No. 7, Alpensinfonie (1877); No. 8, Frülingsklänge (1878); No. 9, Im Sommerzeit (1880); No. 10, Zur Herbstzeit (1882); No. 11, Im Winter (1883).
REINECKE, KARL. No. 1, A major (1872); No. 2, C minor (Hakon Jarl) (1880).
RHEINBERGER, JOSEPH. Wallenstein (1875); Florentinische (1876).
RITTER, FREDERICH LOUIS. No. 1, A major; No. 2, E minor; No. 3, E flat. Unpublished.
ROSENHAIN, JACOB. No. 1, G minor (1846); No. 2, F minor (1854); No. 3, F minor (Spring) (1855).
RUBINSTEIN, ANTON. No 1, F major (1854); No. 2, C major (Ocean) (1868); No. 3, A major (1870); No. 4, D minor (Dramatic) (1875); No. 5, G minor, In memory of the Grand DUchess Hélène Paulovna (1880); No. 6, A minor (1886). Symphonic Poem, Eroica (1885).
SAINT-SAENS, CHARLES CAMILLE. No. 1, E flat (1851); No. 2, F major (1856); No. 3, A minor (1878); No. 4, D major (1863); No. 5, C minor (1886). Symphonic Poems: La Rouet d'Omphale (1874); Phaeton (a874); Danse Macabre (1875); La Jeunesse d'Hercules (1875).
SCHWARENKA, XAVER. No. 1, C minor (1885).
SCHUBERT, FRANZ PETER. No. 1, D major (1813); No. 2, B flat (1815); No. 3, D major (1815); No. 4, C minor (Tragic) (1816); No. 5, B flat (1816); No. 6, C major (1818); No. 7, E major, a sketch (1821); No. 8, B minor (unfinished) (1822); No. 9, C major (1828).
SCHUMANN, ROBERT. No. 1, B flat (Spring) (1841); No. 2, C major (1846); No. 3, E flat (Rhenish) (1841); No. 4, D minor (1841); Overture, Scherzo, and Finale (1841).
SILAS, EDWARD. No. 1, A major (1850); No. 2, C major (1852); No. 3, Symphonie burlesque (1853).
SINGER, OTTO. Symphonie Fantasie (1888).
SPOHR, LOUIS. No. 1, B major (1811); No. 2, D minor (1815); No. 3, C minor (1829); No. 4, Consecration of Sound (1834); No. 5, C minor (1838); No. 6, G major (Historical) (1841); No. 7, Double Symphony (Irdisches und Göttliches im Menschenleben) (1842); No. 8, G minor (1847); No. 9, B major (The Seasons) (1849).
STANFORD, CHARLES VILLIERS. No. 1, B flat (1879); No. 2, D minor (Elegaic) (1882); No. 3, F minor (Irish) (1887).
STRONG, G. TEMPLETON. No. 1, F major (1886).
SULLIVAN, ARTHUR SEYMOUR. No. 1, E minor (1866).
SVENDSEN, JOHANN SEVERIN. No. 1, D major (1863); No. 2, B flat (1871).
TSCHAIKOWSKY, PETER ILTITSCH. No. 1, G major (1874); No. 2, C minor (1875); No. 3, D major (1875); No. 4, F minor (1875); No. 5, Manfred (1876). Symphonic Poems: Francesca von Rimini; The Storm.
ULRICH, HUGO. No. 1, B minor (1852); No. 2, G major (Triomphale) (1853).
VOLKMANN, FRIEDRICH ROBERT. No. 1, D minor (1863); No. 2, B flat (1865).
WAGNER, RICHARD. No. 1, C major (1832).
WEBER, CARL MARIA. No. 1, C major (1807); No. 2, C major (1807).

[eschiss1]

Interesting- I didn't know Silas Pratt -wrote- symphonies. I wonder if they've survived? I'm aware of an opera by him and have seen some of his other music. Interesting list, again. Thank you. (The entry in "The National Cyclopædia of American Biography" (1900) describes The Tempest as his 3rd symphony, and says his 1st was produced in Berlin in 1871, while the 2nd was produced, if I read right, during a visit to England, at the Crystal Palace, along with selections from his opera Zenobia and his Elegy for General Grant; and another book has Symphony 2 The Prodigal Son 7/3 [July 3]/1890 MTNA (Music Teachers National Association - don't know when the premiere was. Hrm. Interesting. To me, anyway. Would like to see the Rosenhain symphonies too, but then of course _I_ would. And the other Taubert ones...

I thought the Ulrich 2nd symphony was in C major.)

[eschiss1]

Even if the Pratt works have disappeared, this looks a little interesting.

[eschiss1]

Plus, forum members need never again wonder which was Mozart's "Swansong" symphony.

Matching descriptions of well-known works today, with descriptions of the same works (when also well enough known) in a musical or other journal from 150 years ago, can be fun... whether the composer in question is Mozart or Krommer or one of the Lachners (as noted in another post recently, (it seems to me that) posthumously-published works seem to receive opus numbers they never had before- I'm not referring to the adoption of more rational cataloguing systems, but to entirely irrational things, such as seems to have happened fairly often with Kramar, where an opus number will refer to one work published during his lifetime and another published since 1980 or so...) Yep, fun...

[chill319]

...this looks a little interesting.

Another Chicago connection.

Looking at the list as a whole, we cannot be surprised that Rufinatscha is missing, or Berwald, or even the Bizet Symphony in C since it didn't enter the canon until the 1930s or so. But I must confess disappointment that Draeseke is completely undocumented. Chadwick's omission is indeed curious.  Fry's omission seems like editorializing pure and simple, given the Bristow coverage. It does suggest that this list has been picked over and is not simply every symphony with which Upton was familiar.

[eschiss1]

Re the Bizet symphony in C omission: I'd be very, very, very, very, much stunned if it were there. It's not so much that it didn't enter the canon of accepted, well-known and wonderful symphonies. It was wholly unknown, in the composer's manuscript papers until, as you say, the 1930s or so, yes (when it was gifted to a library by his wife or daughter's 2nd husband?) - 1935, to be exact. The emphasis on American symphonies does seem a bit like (though not exactly the same as, still somewhat like) the tendency for BBC Music Magazine and Gramophone to somehow manage to prefer, in the end, a Rattle recording over all comers in judging various recordings of Mahler 2, say (to name an actual example taken from BBC Music Magazine); or the ability of the New Oxford Compact Dictionary of Music to contain medium-sized bios of modern British (and, ok, some European) composers of every name and description but nothing whatsoever on any number of only moderately lesser-known European Romantic composers and teachers of some real influence and importance (and even managing to get their names wrong when mentioning them in other articles, e.g. Johann Fuchs for Robert Fuchs).

[cypressdome]

Even if the Pratt works have disappeared, this looks a little interesting.

That would appear to be an excerpt from Complete Musical Analysis by A. J. Goodrich.  Also included in that volume are in depth looks at Paine's Second Symphony, Buck's Golden Legend, Gilchrist's 46th Psalm, MacDowell's First Piano Concerto, and Gleason's The Culprit Fay.

[eschiss1]

Ah, it's very good to see that that's available online, thank you. Given that Tovey's essays are at least mostly in copyright in the US (... I think), a collection like that seems well worth my downloading- hrm. That's the Buck, Gilchrist and Gleason I think it is?... hrm- my... ... yes. Well worth downloading indeed.

[eschiss1]

Reinecke's Hakon Jarl (s? e? en?):
I'd forgotten, there are at least two works by him of that name- the symphony no.2 on the one, and the choral work for alto, tenor, bass, men's chorus and orchestra, Op.142. The latter could be a choral-symphonic poem perhaps- I don't know it at all, though, that's really a guess... - I'll need to re-read the Upton to see if he's referring to the same "Hakon Jarl" in both sections...

[Alan Howe]

Reinecke's Symphony No.2 was apparently inspired by Hakon Jarl, a Norwegian historical tragedy by the Dane, Adam Oehlenschläger. The movements have these titles:
1. Hakon Jarl
2. Thora
3. In Odin's Grove
4. Oluf's Victory
Clearly Reinecke's work was taken to be programmatic, which was decidedly not the composer's intention. I assume that this is the source of the confusion. 

It is worth consulting the liner notes accompanying Howard Shelley's fine recording on Chandos:
http://www.chandos.net/pdf/CHAN%209893.pdf

[eschiss1]

Granted. (I'd know what I was talking about if I hadn't just discovered/rediscovered the existence in Reinecke's output of the -other- work in his output with that title, which isn't just nicknamed but actually entitled Hakon Jarl ("Reinecke's cantata Hakon Jarl, op. 142, written for the Leipzig university male choir on Reinecke's own text"...) (Balance those parens, E., balance those parens...))

[Alan Howe]

I don't think that work has anything to do with the topic in hand. 

[chill319]

Clearly Reinecke's work was taken to be programmatic, which was decidedly not the composer's intention.

A related case is d'Indy's opus 12 (Wallenstein), which Upton, with perhaps a bit more reason, takes to be a programmatic symphony.