Rubinstein - La Russie

[semloh]

Also, thanks to britishcomposer for uploading this superbly played and very enjoyable work by Rubinstein. 

After so many debates about Rubinstein's merits as a symphonist, I wonder what will be the reactions to this. He seems more comfortable with this format. It's colourful and superbly orchestrated, and rarely did I get the sense that he was getting lost or running out of ideas. Twenty minutes was, I think, the perfect length - and the ending is, well, 'a corker'! 

[scottevan]

Let me add my thanks as well... incredibly diverse, very enjoyable large scale work by Rubinstein. Gave the impression that he was trying to capture the sounds and vastness of Russia itself, and to a certain extent succeeded. There was some borrowing (including from himself) but I agree, the piece never seemed to flag.

Interesting to compare this to musical pictures of Russia by Balakirev, Bruch, Rimsky-Korsakov and quite a few others.

One of the great things about Rubinstein is that there's always something new to discover; he was that prolific!

[Peter1953]

Thank you britishcomposer for this wonderful, lush and impressively orchestrated work, which is for me another confirmation that Rubinstein is anything but a flawed composer. On the contrary.

[Richard Moss]

Ignore my post under new recordings - just seen this stream of comments after I'd posted

Richard

[Mark Thomas]

Yes, thanks very much for this. A very welcome surprise. I hope I don't get kicked too much if I'm honest about my impression of it as being structurally ramshackle because, if listened to not as the "symphonic piece" which Rubinstein apparently dubbed it, but as a series of interlinked musical scenes which flow one from the other (almost as a ballet score), I do also think it an attractive and successful work. I only knew of its existence from the briefest of mentions in Philip Taylor's recent biography of Rubinstein, which never hinted at its substantial length. It was apparently written to commemorate an Exhibition of Industry and Art in Moscow in 1882, and was premièred there, along with an early performance of the Fifth Symphony. Presumably Rubinstein never gave it an opus number because it wasn't published? I wonder why that was?

[Mark Thomas]

Having listened to this work several times now, it's clear that it's not really a coherent single 24 minute "symphonic piece" (to use Rubinstein's own description) at all, but a series of linked musical tableaux, often built around well-known themes ("God Save the Tsar". "O Tannenbaum", "Kol Nidrei" amongst no doubt many others that I don't know). As such it doesn't stand comparison with Rubinstein's comparable large scale symphonic poems (for want of a  better word) like Ivan the Terrible or Don Quixote. Attractively melodic and impressively orchestrated though it is, it seems really to be just a pot-pourri on a grand scale, a pièce d'ocassion, written for that 1882 exhibition. I'm just now listening to a truly successful symphonic work by Rubinstein - his Fifth Piano Concerto - and the contrast couldn't be more telling. I think I see now why he didn't get Rossiya published!

[Peter1953]

I usually disagree what you say about Rubinstein, Mark, but not this time. I think your description of his morceau symphonique pour grand orchestre is spot-on, as I see it. However, I wonder what the real fact is why this work didn't get an opus number. Was it commercially not interesting enough for publishers? Hard to believe.

[Mark Thomas]

Maybe Rubinstein himself didn't feel that the work deserved to stand alongside his other major orchestral works, Peter? But on the other hand, some of his most successful works, like the operas The Demon and Nero, also lack opus numbers, and they were published.

[sdtom]

I'm glad to have this little gem in my collection. He certainly was prolific as a composer.
Tom

[sdtom]

I've given it six listens now and to me it sounds like a compilation of musical material from Russia. I like Mark am not familiar with some of the melodies so I wonder how much is original and how much is new material from Rubinstein. It is certainly not on the same page as Russia and others but it's a keeper for me.
Tom

[Peter1953]

Funny is the theme of 'O Tannenbaum', or in Dutch 'Oh denneboom, oh denneboom', which is in the Netherlands a children's Christmas song. Maybe in English 'Oh Pine tree, oh Pine tree'?? Obviously an international tune, but why did Rubinstein use that melody?

[eschiss1]

It might be a folktune in Russia also (or something very like it might)- that sort of thing (similarity of "folk melodies", sometimes to different lyrics, ... across international borders -etc., etc. ...) happens all the time. With or without a holiday connotation. Worth looking into...

(Actually, interesting from Wikipedia how misleading the standard English translations are of the 1824 lyrics, which do not mention Christmas, religion or anything else...)

[semloh]

I think it exemplifies what I said in that debate we had about his 5th symphony (?) - his orchestral works are often a kaleidoscope of expertly orchestrated, attractive musical ideas, but at best only loosely linked, and rarely with any apparent overall plan or structure.  As you said, Mark this is a "pot-pourri"... but it's still an enjoyable experience if you're not looking for anything too serious.

[Mark Thomas]

Yes, I agree Colin.

[Peter1953]

And I cannot disagree more... but I'll rest my case.