Bax Symphony in F from Dutton

[Mark Thomas]

The latest issue of International Record Review features a very extensive review by the inestimable Calum Macdonald of this recording. His appreciation of Martin Yates' orchestration mirrors what we have written here. Indeed he suggests that it is probably a better job than Bax himself could have done at the age he was writing the Symphony. Although I don't want to reopen here the debate on the quality of the Symphony itself, it is worth recording that Macdonald's view is that the inner movements are the best of the piece, but that overall: "Unalloyed masterpiece, or indeed a masterpiece of any kind, this is not".

[eschiss1]

these constant skids and swipes and snipes at the 2nd Viennese School, made confidently in the expectation that everyone here will nod and agree with those who make them, get wearing, by the way...

[thalbergmad]

My rather simple view is that I respect the skill in making a recording possible, but I don't care for the music.

I expect to see the padlock sign on this thread in the not too distant future.

Thal

[Josh]

This may be inappropriate, and if so, I apologise.  But I almost beg the moderators to not lock this thread.  I've never heard the piece, as I said before.  And I grapple with a lot of music after 1830 or so, which makes me one of the least likely of people to fight for the survival of this discussion.  But I speak merely as someone who thinks that the modern world's greatest advantage in all forms of art is that we can have close to everything.  Some further people who happen upon this board may end up loving this work (for that matter, even I might!).  But partly, that is immaterial.  I really don't see hostility in this discussion, even in the debating portions about Bax's early symphony.  Is disagreement, even in drastic pendulum swings, in and of itself worth halting and locking?  I'm actually interested - in a very positive way - to read both the pros and cons on this work.

As one of those so-called completionists, I'm all for recording everything that Human beings can lay hands on; after all, what's the harm?  Especially with modern digital storage, it just seems like a win-win, since at the very worst it does no damage to anyone.  But I'm also interested in "patchy" works, those that have passages I find redeemable, as mentioned above.  And what's more... I might end up loving this piece when I hear it!  And in the end, all of these outcomes are fine, and there are probably others reading this who are in the same boat.  And more discussion is perfectly fine to many of us in this boat.

I just hope that the widely differing opinions don't suggest for the moderators a necessity of locking this thread.  I've never heard anything of Bax that I liked before, but I'm honestly fascinated by this project, and was a bit intrigued by the tiny sample snippets that have been made available.  And one of the people* with whom I've enjoyed discussing music the most in person is someone that shared with me practically nothing in common as far as musical tastes.  And not one bit of these discussions was acrimonious or unpleasant, but on the contrary, quite enlightening, enjoyable, and door-opening for both of us.  Sorry about the long plea, and it may not matter at all if minds have been made up, but though there are no true votes here, I still vote to not lock this!


*This man sadly passed away in 2011, name of Seth Williamson.  He was a local radio host and a very generous, knowledgeable, and kind person.  The only flaw I ever found in him was that (in general) the only pre-20th music he liked was by J.S. Bach!  He didn't even care much for W.A. Mozart... blasphemy!  But the radio station for which he worked might interest many who read this board:  wvtf.org is the website.  It's well worth checking out!  Tons of unsung music is played there, and I do mean tons.  I'd explain more about how that station flat-out changed my life when I was younger, but that'd be a long and very boring story.  Suffice it to say that both Raff and Bax get way, way more than the norm there in terms of playtime!

[Mark Thomas]

The thread won't be locked as long as debate remains civil and doesn't just repeat arguments already made and exhausted.

[musiclover]

I can't believe there is even a suggestion of locking this thread.
I saw the IRR review and I think it is a very balance critique of the Symphony as a whole. I can see that there is an issue with the final movement, it's length and in the reviewers view, it's content, but I really admire the way he objectively dealt with the problems as he sees them without dismissing the work in its entirety. I think there can be an issue about completions, in so much as if there really are in existence just a bunch of themes and not much else whatever the resulting piece it can only ever be another composer's usage of the original composers themes. Of course the Bax doesn't come into that category, but if one looks at the more successful completions then of course the Elgar 3, Moeran 2 and even the Arnell 7 would fit into the category of all having had something more substantial left behind than just a set of themes. In the cases of these works I do think that they were well worth rescuing so that we could hear the ideas that the composers had.
I don't know how true it is, but I heard that in the case of the Moeran there was no sketch for a finale at all and just a couple of themes that Martin Yates then composed using his knowledge of Moeran's music into the last movement. If that is true then I suppose my earlier remark is redundant, as it is a very successful part of the Symphony! What do I know then? Perhaps the Symphony should have ended with the slow movement in that case, but then re-listening to it it feels right having the last movement.....is it really not Moeran sketches?