British Symphonies either side of WW2

[Alan Howe]

There seems to have been a particularly rich period of symphonic composition either side of WW2 in Britain. Besides the obvious suspects (RVW, Walton, Moeran, Bax, Alwyn, Arnell, Arnold, etc.), there are several others. For example, I have just encountered the very fine 1st Symphony of Hindemith pupil Arnold Cooke. Does anybody know this work? And has anyone any further recommendations from this period?

[gentile]

The period that you mention seems to have been no less than "glorious" for the British Symphony, both in number (of works and composers) and in quality. For those of you that speak or, at least can understand, German I recommend the book "Die britische Sinfonie 1914-1945" by Jürgen Schaarwächter (Verlag Dohr 1994) with about 600 pages on the subject. At the end of the book there is a list of all (known) British symphonies premiered between 1825 and 1975. The peak appears to have been between 1955 and 1968 with an average of more than 15 new symphonies per year (happy times!).

[albion]

Alan, you've mentioned most of the foremost names, but I would add George Dyson's Symphony in G (1937), Cyril Scott's The Muses (1937), Armstrong Gibbs' Odysseus (1937/8), Bantock's The Cyprian Goddess (1938/9), William Wordsworth's 2nd (1947/8) and Havergal Brian's 6th (1948) - luckily all are now available in excellent recordings:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dyson-Symphony-major-Concerto-Chiesa/dp/B0008JEKEU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1274000898&sr=1-1

http://www.chandos.net/details06.asp?CNumber=CHAN%2010211

http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7201

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/al.asp?al=CDA66810&f=bantock

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wordsworth-Symphonies-Nos-2-3/dp/B000027QVT/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1274003003&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Havergal-Brian-Symphonies-Arnold-Symphony/dp/B0014FLGRQ/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1274000827&sr=8-5

[Alan Howe]

I rate Dyson and Wordsworth, and I have the Bantock. Gibbs I don't rate at all, but clearly I must pursue the Lyrita CD which includes Brian 6 and Cooke 3.

Unfortunately Schaarwächter's book seems no longer available.

[edurban]

"...Gibbs I don't rate at all..."

I'm assuming this is a Britishism.  It means something negative or dismissive, oui?

David

[Alan Howe]

To rate = to value, esteem. A Britishism?

[thalbergmad]

Not really my era and whilst a bit long for me, I remember a nice Saturday morning in the company of George Lloyd Symphony No. 4.

Not listened to any of the others yet.

Thal

[edurban]

"...Gibbs I don't rate at all..."

Never heard an American express it thus.  Personally, I need to give Odysseus another listen.   I have mixed feelings about the other 2 symphonies...
David

[albion]

I don't think that anyone has mentioned Edmund Rubbra (1901-1986) yet, but he is a wonderful composer whose work is certainly worth getting to know - within the terms of this present discussion, the relevant symphonies are Nos. 1 (1936), 2 (1937), 3 (1939) and 5 (1949). Hickox on Chandos is unsurpassed.

Also worth a listen is Eric Chisholm's 2nd (Ossian) from 1939:

http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDLX7196

Amongst the unrecorded British symphonies from this period, top of my list would be Cyril Rootham's choral Symphony No.2 (Revelation Symphony), completed with the help of Patrick Hadley during the composer's final illness in 1938.

[Alan Howe]

Rubbra is certainly a great symphonist.

Any thought on Lennox Berkeley? Or Frankel, Searle, Rawsthorne, Joubert, etc....?

[eschiss1]

Rubbra is certainly a great symphonist.

Any thought on Lennox Berkeley? Or Frankel, Searle, Rawsthorne, Joubert, etc....?

Have heard a little by Searle (including three of his symphonies though), Fricker (sym. 2) and Berkeley (sym. 3 I think and one or two other works), a little more by Rawsthorne, a lot by Frankel, nothing yet by Joubert beyond the name- I think.  (Also a lot by Simpson though except for his sym. 1 he doesn't fall into this period I think. But then neither do Frankel's later works )
Generally positive I feel (I think especially well of Frankel.)
Eric

[Alan Howe]

I have no problem with any of these works, except for those in line of descent from Schoenberg, Berg, etc. I want to like Frankel, for example, but find myself too easily disorientated. Does this mean that this style is fundamentally antithetical to symphonic writing? Or is it me? (Having said that, I can follow Hugh Wood's Symphony without too much difficulty!) 

[John H White]

I find mid 20th Century British symphonies rather a mixed bag. e.g. Walton 1 I like quite a lot, particularly the scherzo which, for ingenuity I would put in the same class as that of Raff 2. We waited an awful long time for Walton 2 and, when it did arrive, I was rather disappointed. Of Malcolm Arnold's symphonies, I feel I can only fully relate to Nos 2 & 5. Similarly, I think Rubbra only really got it right with his 5th symphony. Of the Vaughan Williams symphonies, the only ones I really enjoy are nos. 2, 4 & 5. I find Robert Simpson rather strident and noisy but must admire him for his championship Bruckner and Havergal Brian. The latter's symphonies I feel are rather a mixed bag----good in parts like the proverbial curate's egg. I haven't heard them all, but I would probably agree with Simpson that No 8 ( formerly N0. 9 ) is the best of the bunch. Like Alan, I cannot relate to Frankel, still less to Searl or Tippett.

[Pengelli]

I remember somebody sending me a  cassette of Frankel symphonies years ago,when they were still unrecorded. I only played the tape once & was polite about it,but found them unappealing,to say the least. I think he was probably better at film music.
As to Brian. I'm not so keen on him as I used to be,but the Testament release of the Boult performance had me enthusing over that mind boggling piece of music al over again. The sheer scale of it. The horrible Naxos recording put me off it for years. My favourite performance of the 'Gothic' has to be the Ole Schmidt. I wish someone would release it on cd. His last, twenty odd symphonies ,all sound the same,to my ears,except for No 16,which is strangely impressive. My favourite HB symphonies are No 5 & 6. Having said that,I do wish someone would hurry up and record No 5. However, it really does need a good soloist,otherwise it will have been a waste of time! The Lyrita cd is THE HB recording to buy,in my opinion. The best commercial recording ever made of Brian's music.
As to Simpson. I think the 9th is very impressive. But,I admit I haven't listened to it for a long time. I also enjoyed the 3rd & 5th. Come to think of it,I might even invest in the boxed set when I've got some money to spare! I admire Simpson's work at the BBC. I only wish there was someone with his values there,now,
With respect to Bantock's 'Cyprian Goddess'. I love that,even though it's not really a symphony. Exciting,over the top,escapist fun! Strange how the record companies seem to have lost interest in Bantock now. I wonder why? There is allot of music left to record. Is Vernon Handley's legacy too daunting,for them?

[eschiss1]

Frankel's 5th (and maybe 3rd) (1967, 1964...) are probably the most accessible of his symphonies, btw. (Both combine serial and non-serial elements - the fifth in separate movements, the third in one. Of his orchestral works in general, there's always the violin concerto. But his pre-1958 concert works like the violin concerto are generally a lot more tonal than those post that date.  At least one of the film scores is serial, too, famously - Curse of the Werewolf..)