E T A Hoffmann Undine

[Alan Howe]

My discovery of the day: the overture to E T A Hoffmann's opera Undine (1816). Weber must surely have known this...

Anyone know the opera?

(Idiom: that delicious moment when late-classicism turns into early romanticism).

[eschiss1]

Know of (the English-language Wikipedia article is too brief, btw, here's one in German) but haven't heard it or even the overture. I'm under the impression it was influential "back in the day" (if by back in the day one means 150 years ago or so, but as someone who at least pretends (on TV?) to have a historian's temperament, that's not meant as a negative qualifier.)

Also, Pfitzner-edited vocal score pub.1906- may or may not be visible in the EU since Pfitzner died less than 70 years ago (I think under Urtext-exemption law which applies outside of the US and which IMSLP notes, it should be ok however.) -- IMSLP. (of course, the same page will I hope - if someone uploads / re-uploads them - contain any earlier-published parts if someone should scan them in. Maybe some library has the first edition score or parts somewhere. Those would I presume be PD-everywhere.)

[Alan Howe]

The overture is a magnificent, forward-looking piece. I'm really looking forward to hearing the whole opera.

[adriano]

The complete UNDINE (including spoken dialogues) was once available on the Living Stage Label (CD  LS 347.03). It features a splendid cast from a 1966 Munich broadcast, including Rita Streich, Melitta Muszely, Raimund Grumbach, Karl Christian Kohn, Keith Engen. The Bayerische Rundfunkorchestra is conducted by Jan Koetsier. Those were times!

[Alan Howe]

I've managed to find a copy of the 90s Koch Schwann recording conducted by Roland Bader. I'm looking forward to hearing it in decent digital sound.

[adriano]

The Koch-Schwann recording has no spoken dialogues

[Alan Howe]

That suits me fine!

[Amphissa]

Just fyi, the overture and the complete opera are available on YouTube.

[BerlinExpat]

Although the Bader doesn't include the dialogues, his account is 4:44 longer than Koetsier! There are differences in the timings in various numbers which may account for this difference. The biggest concerns the overture: Bader's is 9:53 whereas Koetsier is 5:35.

Also worthy of investigation is E.T.A. Hoffmann's Aurora - a Grand Romantic Opera in three acts. It is (or was) on Bayer Records BR 100276-78

[Alan Howe]

the overture: Bader's is 9:53 whereas Koetsier is 5:35

Hmmm. Zagrosek (on a Schwann/Musica Mundi CD) takes 9:10.

[eschiss1]

Isn't it Bader who's conducting the Undine overture on the LP and CD (while Zagrosek conducts the Symphony and the 3rd work? Well- that's what it claims here anyway if I'm reading right, which I may not be.)

[adriano]

@BerlinExpat - Koetsier's version is a radio broadcast - and a very well performed one. At that time it was normal to have some cuts for program lenght requirements. And - compared to Bader's version, they still were respectful enough to include (abridged) spoken dialogues. I would not really like to have a Zauberflöte without spoken dialogues. A Gesamtkunstwerk like an opera does not necessarily has to be mutilated like that - particularly in the case of E. T. H. Hoffmann, who was also a genius writer. Last, but not least: one should never compare two pieces of music by their lenghts, but by their interpretation. Have the Bader version no more in my collection because I found it boring, although better as far as sonics were concerned, so I cannot compare or find out whethere there were some cuts as well.

[Alan Howe]

You're right, Eric! The details on the insert when you turn over the CD case make no mention of Bader, but he is named on the front. Thanks for checking. Bader it is!

[Alan Howe]

Adriano: While respecting your opinion, if one wants to include the spoken dialogue, the ideal is surely to have the musical score totally uncut as well. As for the concept of a "Gesamtkunstwerk", I think that is something of an anachronism with regard to Undine.

In any case I for one usually find spoken dialogue a complete turn-off: on recordings it's usually so appallingly boringly done that one loses the will to live. And I'm a German speaker!

[adriano]

Alan, there are excellent recorded versions of "Zauberflöte" and, for example Lorzing's "Undine" - and not to speak of all the German operetta ones - with shortened and adapted spoken dialogues. Incidentally, in many operas a "complete score" is a discussable theme, since they exist in various versions, which have been changed depending from practical performances. Even Verdi was giving way to cuts (or additions), which both changed a so-called "original uncut version".