Finding/purchasing new releases

[Sharkkb8]

So, the following is part-question, part-observation, part-rant, apologies in advance for the length.  Over the last month or two I made note of a couple of to-be-released recordings and their availability-dates, all discovered by reading posts from eagle-eyed observers/contributors on this forum.  The release dates have come and gone, and I find myself still trying, in vain, to obtain copies at competitive prices.  They are the Kahn Piano Trios (cpo), and the Thieriot Piano Quartets (also cpo) - will also be on the lookout for the Rietz cello concerti, "available" today, May 2.   Yes, I know I can obtain them through JPC, but at this moment the prices are not exactly competitive with what I am normally willing to pay, and (especially) the shipping to my part of the colonies makes the purchase prohibitively expensive.  But I'm more interested in understanding why they seem to be unavailable anywhere else.  I frequently buy cd's from Amazon, both directly and through their Marketplace system, I frequently download recordings from iTunes, and occasionally utilize other sources such as eMusic and ClassicsOnline.com.   My question is.....why is it so difficult for me to find these newly-released recordings?  I well understand that classical music is not the central focus of music industry sales/marketing these days and unsung composers make up a dramatically smaller subset, but it still seems curious to me that I'm working this hard at finding someone who will take my money.  What does "release date" actually mean, if not, well, the date the recording is available from the usual sources?  Are these recordings initially released through one entity exclusively, such as JPC, does it simply take a while before recordings trickle down to all other major retail sources?  Are vast companies like Amazon and Apple iTunes in a position to charge substantial fees or commissions for selling content through their sites, fees which smaller recording companies just cannot manage?  (I do see plenty of other Ars and cpo recordings on these sites)  Are there labyrinthine international regulations about this sort of thing (wouldn't surprise me), or is it more a case of less than perfect coordination/marketing/distribution?  I'll keep at it, and I'm quite sure I'll find what I'm looking for eventually (at a reasonable overall price)  -  and I also accept that this is rather a first-world problem     -  still, it surely seems like it's harder than it ought to be.  We all wish unsung composers would become more "sung" in the world - well, I'm trying to do my small part by buying and collecting these recordings, but it's not easy!  I have the utmost respect for the collective wisdom about music and the industry to be found on this forum, so I'm keenly interested in members' opinions.  Help me understand!  Thanks, I feel better now. 
Gregory

[Alan Howe]

Remember: cpo is jpc's in-house label. No wonder they appear there first!

[jerfilm]

Downloads from JPC would be nice.   Another irritation is the Amazon often has what I'm seeking but does not offer it in download format.  I have pretty much quit buying CDs.  Much more economical to buy the downloads and make my own 10 cent CDs.....

Jerry

[mbhaub]

Try www.recordsinternational.com

They have all the cpo and prices are quite competitive. Only drawback is the new catalog comes out the first of each month so you have to wait sometimes.

[eschiss1]

Records International is all or almost all CDs, to my knowledge, I think, though that doesn't bother me (except in that my CD area has long since become full Have ordered from them a few times, some years back, with happy experiences.) MusicWeb International has links to other sites and a section with reviews specifically of download versions of recordings, btw.

[jerfilm]

I used to be a monthly buyer at Records International.   But downloads at half the price have all but eliminated him from my list of stockists.  I wrote him months ago suggesting that he consider adding download capability or go completely to it - eliminating the need to carry a large and unpredictable inventory.  The response seemed rather testy - HIS customers want to handle the real CDs and booklets.  Not sure where that certainty came from - I was never asked.  At any rate, I am sorry because I would like to support someone like him who is willing to carry so much unsung music.   But economics are economics and my sheckles go twice as far buying downloads.

[Sharkkb8]

Thanks Alan, for letting me know that CPO and JPC are "related", I just wish they might announce something like "available from JPC for the first month of sale, then elsewhere" or perhaps some equivalent hint in fine print somewhere, to at least give the customer some vague idea of how to go about obtaining the recording.  And thank you, mbhaub, for the mention of recordsinternational.com, my nightly inquiries with them, as well as with Amazon, iTunes, classicsonline.com, etc, are, thus far, in vain.  Same with the Raccanto disc of Manjon violin/piano works also mentioned in this forum (thanks again, Alan!)  -  I see it at JPC and the Raccanto label's site itself, but not in the usual large net of online recording merchants.  The so-called "release date" on that one was April 9.
I fully understand the idea of some "limited, first-run" exclusivity with JPC (if indeed that's what's going on here), but for those of us unwilling to pay upwards of USD$40 for a single cd to arrive on one's doorstep, it might be nice if it were a little less murky about how & when recordings are released to the rest of the world.  As it is, I would imagine there are less determined buyers than myself, who just lose interest and give up, which is not a pleasant prospect (and seems eminently fixable) for recording companies who are increasingly eager for sales - at least *tell me* when and how your product will be available mainstream, toss prospective buyers a crumb!  In this day and age of competing for buyer's $$$ and the ease of online commerce for the consumer, I would think the record companies would be concerned that the apparent "system" in place forces customers to work much too hard at giving them their money.  I've sent a polite note about my concerns to JPC's "contact us" link, I could find no equivalent for CPO itself, all online approaches to CPO seem to circle back, logically enough, to JPC, if they are under the same umbrella.  We'll see if a response is forthcoming  -  and I'll continue searching....every night.   
Gregory

[eschiss1]

If one lives outside the European Union I expect what may be going on may be a region thing rather than the "one-month-exclusive-to-jpc" etc. conjectured... - I'm guessing, though hardly certain, that one can get some of these CDs from cpo from other German online shops fairly soon after their release date (amazon.de possibly?), from amazon.co.uk perhaps somewhat later e.g., from US-based ones rather later still.

[ken]

I've been purchasing classical music from all over the world for the past 40 years.  The country where the CD originates usually issues the music there first.  Generally, the CDs are then released in other countries the following month, but sometimes it takes up to several months thereafter.  If you want the CD immediately, you usually will pay a premium to purchase it directly from the originating country, but not always.  It is very unusual for all countries to have the same exact release date.

In the case of the CPO label, your best bet is to purchase it from www.MDT.co.uk.  They usually get the CPO releases one month after it is released in Germany and sell it for a fraction of the cost. They have excellent customer service and offer classical music at a very reasonable price.

Downloads of classical music seem to be available before the physical CDs are issued.  Classical music CDs in physical format are getting harder and harder to find these days.  I predict most record companies will stop producing them within the next few years.  Those that choose to continue to offer physical CDs will do so in very limited quantities very similar to the current production of vinyl records.

If you have great recording equipment, digital broadcasts of classical music concerts have a much higher quality of sound than actual CDs.  I wouldn't be surprised if the major orchestras offer their concerts directly for download rather than going to the expense of recording the same music in the studio.

[Richard Moss]

For those of us who aren't musicologists, the booklet notes add to the understanding and enjoyment of the music.  All to often, booklet notes are either not available at all with downloads (e.g. e-music) or , if so (like Presto classical) only available for downloading with the full album (is this a Presto or a label's marketing restriction?) 

A few record labels (e.g. Naxos, Chandos and Hyperion) are willing to make the notes available 'on line', but these tend to be the exception.  Also, for those of us who may only want just a track or two (to avoid costly repetition of existing works), downloading the whole album, even if available at all for downloading, can be too expensive.

If, as suggested, orchestras move towards their own direct downloads, let us hope they follow Leon Botstein's example for his American Symphony Orchestra and provide good notes of the works they are performing.

Cheers

Richard

[TerraEpon]

It's an extreme chore sometimes to be able to find something as simple as, say, a /composer/ for certain discs, or performers, and especially arrangers etc. To say nothing of copyright year and track times (the former for tagging, the later for my database).
Thankfully Naxos, Chandos and BIS are all easy to come by, but SO MUCH of my eMusic DLs I have to rely on Worldcat or the random possibility of finding back covers even for labels like Albany, Reference, Telarc and Pentatone to say nothing of those obscure European labels.

[Sharkkb8]

So.  It has now been exactly 2 months since my little mini-tantrum about recording-availability, at the beginning of this thread.  For any who might be interested, here is a very long (and perhaps tedious) update.  I do understand that the subject matter here is distant from the majority of offerings on this wonderful website, which are mostly dedicated to musical history, biography, and aesthetic analysis.  But a unifying thread among most members here is also the wish that this music could become better known, so I would argue that taking a hard look at the mechanics of finding these recordings is in line with that - the more available & affordable, the more visibility this music is bound to receive.  For those who are disinterested in things that smack of "commercialism", I beg you to stop reading right here and move on, this post is entirely about availability and prices.  I do understand if this is not relevant or valuable to all -  I am, after all, merely an "inert colonial", in the judgment of one forum member.      

I have been keeping track, nearly daily, of the availability of several UC-mentioned recordings through iTunes (downloads), Amazon (cd and download), JPC, Presto, MDT, classisonline.com, recordsinternational.com, and eclassical.com.  I have also sent polite inquiries to several labels/distributors about availability for these specific recordings, with varying results.

1)   I'm pleased to say that the "winner" of this informal competition is the Reinecke CC cd (from Delos) of our own Michael Samis - his recording is widely available at very competitive prices - all the above-mentioned sources except JPC - and thus it was the first to join my collection.  And it goes without saying, Michael, "Bravo!"  And the same to Delos for their easy-to-find distribution.

2)   The Robert Kahn Piano Trio recording (cpo) was the first to kickstart this little survey.  It was "released" by JPC on April 28, two months ago.  It was initially available (and still is) on JPC for USD $24.34 (£17.90, £14.30), but adding in JPC's hefty shipping price of $17.58 (€12.93, £10.33) to the colonies, it comes in at a whopping $41.92 (€30.83, £24.64)   I applaud any forum member here who is flush enough to afford this!  Some 5 weeks later it suddenly became available from iTunes (download) for $19.98 (€14.79, £11.91), so I purchased.  In the last week or so, available Amazon download for $17.98 (€13.79, £10.55) or CD $33.99 (€24.91, £19.96).

3)   The Thieriot Piano Quartet cd (also cpo) was also "released" by JPC on April 28, at $20.28 - with the same USA shipping, this a price tag of $37.86 (€28.02, £22.56).   It became available on Presto and MDT at points along the way for somewhat less, and finally a week or so ago my search turned it up (download) at classicsonline.com for $9.99 (€7.39, £5.95), so at slightly more than ¼ of the JPC price, I'm finally a proud owner/listener.

4)   The Rietz cello works (ARS) is an interesting case in point.  Again JPC is the first to claim availability, on May 2.  It's tied for the most expensive single cd in my survey - with shipping, $44.63 (€33.03, £26.60).  An email inquiry to ARS, regarding when/if it would be available through the usual, less expensive retailers (iTunes, Amazon, etc) was kindly answered with this:  "Could you please contact Naxos USA in this case, this is our distributor for the label ARS Produktion in USA".  I dutifully forwarded my inquiry to the Naxos email address which ARS provided to me (this was on May 11), and to date have not received a reply.  Needless to say, I'm in no hurry to buy this music at such an absurd price.  And just lately I see that Amazon has announced they will start selling it on July 29 (nearly three months after JPC) for $17.47.  Even that's on the high side.

5)   Rontgen String Trios, vol. 2 (Champs Hill).  While JPC still has it (with shipping) for just over $40 (€30, £24), Amazon will be selling the download staring on July 8th for $16.99 (€12.47, £9.97).  Vol. 1 can be downloaded from them for $8.99 (€6.59, £5.27) so the lesson learned seems to be to wait a while longer.

6)   The Milford/Stanford VC recording (EM) is, for me, another eagerly anticipated one.  Both Presto and MDT advertise release on May 27, at prices within a buck or so of each other, $17.25 & $18.38 respectively.  What stands out from these sellers (as opposed to JPC) is the very pleasantly surprising shipping charge to USA - Presto $3.40 (€2.50, £1.99) and MDT even better, $2.10 (€1.54, £1.23).   JPC's shipping for the same single cd is between 8 and 9 times as much!  But if one chooses to wait until it becomes available through iTunes, a download will be $9.99 (virtually all their downloads are equally priced), just remains to be seen how long it will be before that happens.  I sent a polite note to EM records asking about iTunes/Amazon availability, and got a very sweet note from Emily Marshall-Luck herself.  She was quite sympathetic to my inquiry and said that her understanding (and hope) was that the distributors should have the recording available through all the normal sources "within a fortnight".  Emily's much-appreciated reply was May 18, nearly 6 weeks ago, and still no iTunes availability (there are a few copies of the cd on sale by third-party sellers on Amazon, from folks who presumably got their copies from MDT or Presto and are now re-selling them).  Sometimes I wonder if the "music people" turn over the whole enchilada to the "distributor people", make assumptions that all is well with availability, and then don't fully realize the frustrations that buyers might later experience.

7)   Ysaye Harmonies (Naxos America) - similar issue:  JPC $44.60 (€33.00, £26.58), Amazon approximately half those prices, no iTunes download at $9.99 yet.

.   The biggest mystery is the Manjon violin/piano cd from Raccanto.  JPC has it (announced April 9) at the (seemingly frequent) high price (with shipping) $44.63 (€33.03, £26.60).  Unavailable anywhere else, and even considering the pre-shipping price of $27.05 (€19.90, £15.90), it wouldn't be surprising if this one is sitting on JPC's shelves, collecting dust.  I inquired of Raccanto about other (cheaper) availability, a Mr. Robert Schröter kindly wrote back to me, but he stated that the "too strong Euro" is the culprit.  I would humbly suggest that having it available at only *one* source at an incomprehensibly high price, means that a curious marketing decision/lack of competition is the problem.  Mr. Schröter offered to take my direct order by email for €24,10 ($32.75, £19.27).  I'll wait until iTunes or Amazon carries it, at about ¼ that price, thank you.

9)   The Brun Piano Concerto (Guild) was announced May 15 on Guild directly, and I've been unable to find it anywhere else.  But for me, it was an impulse buy from them - $18.74 including shipping (€13.87, £11.17) - a little high but not stratospheric, so I went for it - now I wait for delivery.  It will be an $8 or $9 download on iTunes and Amazon....someday.

I have not seen the Juon Symphony (Sterling) anywhere yet - my inquiry to them produced a delightful exchange with Bo Hyttner.  He's very personable and obviously very accessible, although in the end he was unable to give me specifics about availability.  *sigh*  We wait....

Admittedly, part of my particular problem is represented by the shipping cost to the USA rather than Europe/England, but even correcting for that, the problem remains, just slightly less severe.  And Amazon UK and Amazon USA have significantly different availabilities and prices, they both sell enormous amounts of music, so one might be surprised at the extent of the differences, and at the instances of availability on one but not the other.

If anyone has stuck with me through all this, well, bless you, and go reward yourself with a nice cuppa...or perhaps something stronger.    The only consistency in all of this is the remarkable inconsistency - recordings appear here and there erratically, at wildly differing prices, with no discernible pattern.  I can think of no other normal, casual purchase - a book, a loaf of bread, a t-shirt - that seemingly requires anywhere near this level of shopping-effort from its prospective buyers, to get an easy & decent deal.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a free-market guy, I think record companies and distributors can and should market their products as they see fit, I just find it hard to believe that what they've chosen is this murky and frustrating for their customers - the takeaway is that my personal "default" purchase decision is fast becoming this:  absent easy availability and a good deal elsewhere up front, I will just essentially wait until any and all recordings hit iTunes and Amazon, no matter how long that may take.  The record companies might do well to wonder how many other buyers are out there who have made the same decision.  They might consider adapting their strategies, they'd quite possibly make more money in the long-run, and make more of their customers happy at the same time.

Can anyone closer to the recording industry help me understand all this - it seems madness, yet is there method in't?

Gregory

[ken]

I'm not in the recording industry, but the answer to why there are price discrepancies in classical music purchases is quite simple.  Classical music sales are so small they only account for 2.8% of all music purchases in the US.  Also, if the CD was produced and recorded outside your country of origin, it is considered an import.  Import prices tend to be higher than domestic prices.  Imports are usually sold through distributors at a later date than the original release date in fairly small quantities.  In addition, with the invention of the internet, independent record companies and orchestras are selling their own CDs direct to the public, usually at a higher than normal price, bypassing the distributors.  In general, but not always, in order to break even, a classical CD release must sell at least 5,000 copies.  Very few classical releases result is sales of 5,000 copies.  In addition, you are searching for unsung composers.  Unsung composers are rarely broadcast on classical music radio stations or performed live in concert.  If buyers of classical music haven't heard the works by these unsung composers, they are very unlikely to spend the required CD price of $15-$25.  So to answer your question as to why you are finding CD prices all over the map as well as limited availability issues is due to the small market for these recordings.  Supply and demand economics apply here - low supply usually means higher prices.  Classical music has always been the most expensive music to purchase compared with popular music.  If you are looking for the least expensive price for a given CD, you have to do a search, but your sources for purchasing classical music are very limited.  The pricing issues you have brought up have been around for decades, and I don't anticipate things will change in the future.  These issues exit with downloads as well as physical CDs.  Your final purchase decision will be based upon finding a reasonable price, however, if you really want a recording badly enough, you might have to spend more than you want to or simply not buy the recording at all.

A good article regarding the current state of classical music can be found here:
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/01/classical_music_sales_decline_is_classical_on_death_s_door.html

[Alan Howe]

Admittedly, part of my particular problem is represented by the shipping cost to the USA rather than Europe/England

In a nutshell...

[Sharkkb8]

Admittedly, part of my particular problem is represented by the shipping cost to the USA rather than Europe/England

In a nutshell...

Yes, but Alan, the exact same issues are present if you look at just the cd-prices, without factoring in *any* shipping cost.