Finding/purchasing new releases

[Sharkkb8]

the answer to why there are price discrepancies in classical music purchases is quite simple...<snip>  to answer your question as to why you are finding CD prices all over the map as well as limited availability issues is due to the small market for these recordings.  Supply and demand economics apply here

Thank you for your thoughtful response, ken, but respectfully, I think you're answering a question other than the one I'm asking.  I fully understand the quirks and oddities of the unsung-composer-recording-industry *when compared to the greater music industry*.  I get the 2.8% figure and that the supply-demand numbers pale when compared to the vastness of popular music.  But what I'm trying to talk about is just within the tiny subset itself.  Unsung composer cd's are recorded and sold with just their realistically-sized consumer group in mind, the companies which produce them are not trying to compete with the mainstream stuff.  I am glad you brought up "supply and demand", I'm a big believer in it as the First Law of Commerce, but that's why within the tiny sphere of recording companies and the audience to which they cater, there seems to be such a *lack* of uniform supply and demand.  It's exactly what got my attention - if the same recording, which is being offered to the same, small grouping of buyers, can be found for either $9 or $45 (without factoring in shipping), then something other than "supply and demand" is at work here, in the price selected by the seller.  That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Gregory

[ken]

I've been purchasing classical music for a very long time and can tell you that in my travels, it was not unusual to find the price of the same classical music recording to vary sharply, especially imports.  Again, the answer to your question is quite simple.  It's called markup or profit.  Obviously there is a suggested retail price listed when a seller receives a specific CD.  It is up to the seller to offer the music for sale at whatever price they choose.  Again, since the supply of these recordings are very low, you either paid that price or not.  I can tell you that sellers that sold recordings for a very high price were the first to go out of business.  Popular music on the other hand was quite different.  Since supply was very abundant, competition was very high.  In fact, many sellers would actually sell music below the wholesale price just to get customers in the door.  These sellers might lose money on the CDs, but would make up the difference on other items purchased by the same buyer.  You are finding these wide price discrepancies on the same classical music recordings because a seller can sell that recording for whatever price they choose.  It's up to you to either buy it at that price or buy it elsewhere.  Hope that answers your question.

[Alan Howe]

I just shop around. I'm afraid I don't always wait for the price to drop - especially if it is a new release available first in continental Europe which I want to get my hands on direct from the supplier concerned. But on the whole, if you want to purchase at a lower price, the answer is usually: WAIT!

[Kevin Pearson]

I understand your frustration but patient waiting is about our only choice in the USA. I do find that most of the time that on Amazon the Amazon Marketplace is a better choice for purchases. For instance the Robert Kahn Piano Trio for $33.00 is only $17.00 plus $4.00 shipping through the marketplace. Of course you do still have to wait for Amazon to actually list the work most of the time before even any dealers list it. Personally if I can get a title for $20.00 or less then I'm happy with that as I realize the rarity and limited production of most of the things I buy necessitates higher prices.

Kevin

[jerfilm]

I'm pretty much in to downloads at this point in life.  Which is an even more frustrating state.  For example, I have been waiting for Spohr's The Fall of Babylon.  Ah, finally it shows up at Amazon.com for $34.99.   But no MP3 download.   Or how 'bout the Rubinstein Piano Quartets?  Amaxzon.com again - $25.12 (where did THAT come from???) but no download.  Same when you go to Hyperion's website.  Yesterday I looked on their website for a CD, an older one, and found ONE, yes, one track offered in MP3.   No CD, no other tracks.k  Just one, and part of a piece at that......

I don't mind shopping itunes, but frankly, for me, at least, navigating around their website trying to find classical releases, is almost as much work as shoveling two feet of snow by hand from a mile long driveway.....   I used to purchase 2-6 CDs monthly from Records International but when I wrote and suggested he might consider doing downloads, the reply turned me off so much that I think I've order only one CD since.  It's hell to get old and cratchitty........

I guess we just suffer, Gregory.   Wait long enough, it will show up on Odeon or into-classics or elsewhere.  Such a shame - I agree, their marketing efforts often suck.   Perhaps someone should put them on to this forum.

Jerry

[ken]

The Rubenstein Piano Quartets are available for download on iTunes for $10.99.

You can find them here:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/rubinstein-piano-quartets/id814431261

[ken]

Spohr - The Fall of Babylon is available for download at Presto Classical for $20.00

You can find the download here:
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Coviello/COV91406

[ken]

To convert iTunes m4a files to mp3 files, download this free software:

http://download.cnet.com/Free-M4a-to-MP3-Converter/3000-2140_4-187723.html

When downloading the software, uncheck all of the boxes for any additional software.  After downloading the software, change the output format to MP3, freq - 44100, mode - stereo, bitrate - 320,  by clicking on the setup button.  The software is very easy to use and converts your M4a files to MP3 format generally in under 1 minute.

[Sharkkb8]

I don't mind shopping itunes, but frankly, for me, at least, navigating around their website trying to find classical releases, is almost as much work as shoveling two feet of snow by hand from a mile long driveway.....

Oh, how I hear you, Jerry!  Part of the problem is "search" on the big websites - as I have been conducting my unofficial little nightly survey, it has gotten most tiresome to search for "Manjon" and keep getting "Marilyn Manson" results.....or worse, Charles!      Ah well, but that's a growl-fest for another day.

Gregory

[Sharkkb8]

Again, the answer to your question is quite simple.  It's called markup or profit. 

Ken, this is the second time you've said this sort of thing, and it's getting a little condescending.  Would have preferred to leave this unsaid, but I was the CFO for several multi-million dollar theater and concert complexes in Southern California for several decades, and up until a few years ago I was a business owner as well.  I don't really think a simple statement of "supply and demand" and "markup/profit" is something I or others on this forum are looking for.  It is precisely because of the *lack* of those normal economic forces in this particular small market that I have posed my questions.  "Supply and demand" is a LEVELING economic force, it *evens out* prices and supplies, it can't also be, at the same time, the responsible force for extreme availability and price swings among sellers within the same small marketplace ecosystem.

It is up to the seller to offer the music for sale at whatever price they choose. 

Yes, ken, I am aware of that.  I'm endeavoring to ascertain (among many other things) WHY two recording-sellers, fully aware of each other and appealing to precisely the same tiny buyer-set, would choose two wildly different prices for precisely the same product.  Like it or not, the answer is NOT reciting a simplistic "supply and demand" or "profit" mantra.

a seller can sell that recording for whatever price they choose. 

No, he can't.  Sorry, but he simply can't. Otherwise every seller could price each new cd that comes along at $1,000.  He can OFFER a new unsung cd for $1,000 but he can't SELL it for that.  Sellers don't determine prices, buyers do - "prices" meaning the average price at which purchases are actually mutually agreed to and completed, willing buyer and seller, on a regular, consistent basis.

Even if we can't reach consensus on prices, I still pose the related availability issue - CPO has placed some recordings on iTunes, some not.  Some recordings on Amazon USA, some not.  MDT, JPC, etc.  Same for Hyperion, Naxos, Chandos, Sterling, etc etc etc - all of our favorites.  There doesn't seem to be any consistent pattern, no discernible marketing strategy of timing their sales.  If I could ascertain that after ___ number of months of exclusive release (with, say, JPC), this or that label's cd would then likely be placed on sale through this or that venue, and then ___ months after *that*, the same cd would appear through this or that *other* selling venue, I wouldn't be posting any of this.  While I agree with Alan that "waiting" for a recording is, unfortunately, often the best and simplest method of getting the best deal on (or even finding) a given recording, it's still the worst conceivable solution for all involved, the label, distributor, merchant and buyer. It's still  a mystery why these labels and distributors choose seemingly random availability dates and prices for their own sales to their own known buyer group, with no consistent overall strategy that has stood the test of time & performed the best for them.  And worse, without giving any availability-hints to us hungry unsung buyers out there, who are eager to give them their money, but are growing weary of the roadblocks and unforced errors. 

Gregory

[Sharkkb8]

...but to balance out my frustration - my Brun Piano Concerto cd from Guild finally arrived today!  After dinner, I'll immerse myself and let all crankiness about prices and availabilities drift away .......

Gregory

[Alan Howe]

I think this thread may have run its course. We're getting into economics here - and apparently pretty random economics at that. Which means that's there's ultimately no answer to the question posed.

[Sharkkb8]

I think this thread may have run its course. ..../.... there's ultimately no answer to the question posed.

OK, well....you're the boss.   

But, if any other members out there would like to join forces with me to stalk the elusive unsung-recording beast, perhaps they could send a private message & we'll do so together, out of sight?

Gregory

[Alan Howe]

Good idea, Gregory. If you come up with an answer to this seemingly intractable problem, perhaps you'll let us know?

[jerfilm]

Thanks, Ken, for the download URLs.  Spohr is downloading as I write this.....

Jerry