Leopold Stokowski 'Symphony'

[Alan Howe]

Probably more like a tone-poem, but quite a piece...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXr2R5OsMh0
More info here:
http://classicalsource.com/db_control/db_concert_review.php?id=7054

[mbhaub]

Wow! Very interesting and worth listening to. If I was asked to guess the composer, my first guess would have been Arnold Bax because of the use of low woodwinds. Not at all what I would have expected from Stokowski, who as a conductor I generally detest. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I assume that someone is planning a cd recording?

[Alan Howe]

I assume that someone is planning a cd recording?

I'd love to think so, but I have no information to that effect. Unfortunately.

[Amphissa]

I assume most people here have heard Stokowski's orchestration of Mussorgsky "Pictures at an Exhibition" which he completed much later in life, when he was in his 50s. Although it will never supplant the Ravel orchestration in the concert hall, it was no mean effort.

In many ways, Stokowski's orchestration in this Symphony reminds me of Myaskovsky -- the darkness, the use of low woodwinds and low brass, the almost Dies Irae, the heavy atmosphere, etc. Compare, for example, to Myaskovsky's "Silence" tone poem.

I have very mixed feelings about Stokowski. His treatment of the Gliere 3rd was horrifying. But his recording of Rimsky-Korsakov's "Sheherazade" with LSO remains one of my favorites. He pushed the envelope on the use of hi fidelity recording technology in the studio -- with mixed success.

But there is no doubt that his efforts to popularize classical music in the U.S. was noteworthy and laudable. The U.S. has always been parochial when it comes to music. Sometimes a "showman" like Stokowski, Bernstein or Dudamel can strike a chord that prods a few dead nerve endings amongst the inert colonials.

[mbhaub]

Funny you should mention Scheherazade, as that work is my prime example of what's wrong with Stokowski the conductor. The added xylophone is just awful. His RCA recording with the Royal Philharmonic is the worst: he begins the 2nd movement before the 1st is even over. I remember with horror his Beethoven 9th, the Tchaikovsky 5th, a sloppy New World, a mess of a Mahler 2nd...and yet, at times he could be quite good - a Khachaturian 3rd never to be topped. This "symphony", or whatever it is, shows none of the vulgar orchestrations he could inflict on other composers - maybe as a student he hadn't learned to ruin other things yet. His Pictures at an Exhibition is just as valid as any others, although for me the best one ever made was done by Lucien Cailliet for Ormandy, who should have made a stereo recording of it, just out of gratitude if nothing else.

Stoki was certainly one of the iconic conductors of the 20th century at least for Americans. He appeared in movies, was caricatured in cartoons, and became for many (my parents!) the epitome of what a conductor should look like. Regardless of his faults, I like this symphony - it's not overly long, very atmospheric. I've even already made my own cd from the sound file.

[eschiss1]

I'll try to give a listen; there's a lot I do like about Stokowski, not least that he was the then and now rare sort of conductor of wide interests, programming and premiering rare music early and late (Schoenberg's early Gurrelieder, Havergal Brian's late 28th symphony, among early-to-late 20th-century works - and that last late in his own life and career) instead of playing it safe. (Even though that latter performance did a bit of taffypulling with the score- horrors... -, I'll consider that part and parcel of that generally welcome risk-taking attitude...)

A site in his honor with interesting biographies of musicians who played when he was conductor of the Philadelphia orchestra has been a useful resource for me, I should add, since some of those musicians were composers themselves

[Alan Howe]

Let's not get into Stokowski as conductor here: the thread is about this early composition of his - and very interesting it is too.

[semloh]

This is a fascinating work that's been kicking around my computer for some time. Tubular bells or chimes, about 2 mins. in, and lots of percussion, brassy fanfares - I keep thinking of The Sorcerer's Apprentice - but it never becomes a romp and quickly drifts into a long quiet passage, the chimes sound again, the brass wind is so deep as to recall those Tibetan horns.... all quite amazing! 

[chill319]

As early as 1906 Stokowski was performing Mahler 5 in Cincinnati, Ohio.  The maestro was not only investigating but  hearing the latest scores .

[Delicious Manager]

I first heard this 'symphony' about a week or so ago. It seems uncertain exactly when he wrote it, but his early 20s seems likely. It's like 1950s/60s film music to my ears (so, in its way, quite advanced). It's cleverly orchestrated, but I can't help thinking that, in places, he was saying "Here, look what *I* can do!".

[semloh]

 "Here, look what *I* can do!".   

Yes, that's a feeling I often get from the work of unsung composers, and of course it is could be regarded as a natural inclination of any gifted youth. A number of mainstream composers began their careers with a major composition that showed off their talent.

I wonder if Stokowski had intended to become a composer but then drifted into conducting, or if he always intended to be a conductor and just did a little composing as an aside (something that many do, with varying success, as we have noted before on the forum). 

[TerraEpon]

Don't forget the huge amount of orchestrations and arrangements he did, which often included his own touches well beyond simple transcription. So it's not as if he only dabbled as far as putting pen to paper, as it were.

[Robert Johnson]

In some of the best of Stokowski's orchestrations he puts his own creative stamp on pre-existing material, just as ravel did with "Pictures". "Two Ancient Liturgical Melodies" is a wonderful example of Stokowski bringing a composer's sensibilities to bear on the task of orchestration.

[DennisS]

Thank you UC for this thread on Stokowski's Symphony. I have listened to this work quite a few times now and from the very first time I heard it, I liked it immediately. I particularly liked the scoring for the flutes (reminded me a little of Debussy/Ravel) and the employment of the bells (a typically Russian touch). I too was reminded in one place in the work of the almost Dies Irae theme. Occasionally this work also reminded me a little of Rachmaninov's Isle of the Dead, both pieces sombre, eerie and atmospheric, although the Rach piece is of course far superior to Stokowski's. Does anyone have more info on Stokowski's symphony.Had Stowkowki intended to write other movements? I must say I would have liked to hear more! As Alan said, the work as constructed does seem more a tone poem than a symphony.

[DennisS]

Re- my post just now, I have just read the classicalsource.com article mentioned by Alan. It answers my questions. Should have read the thread more carefully. Sorry. The article does however confirm my impressions of the music.