Ernst Rudorff (1840-1916) Symphony 3 etc. from cpo

[eschiss1]

Late answer: don't know offhand if any libraries have Rudorff's Op.55. I see some other late works of his listed in Worldcat - the Capriccio Appassionato Op.49 is in a Schwerin library, as are the Op.48 Romanze (the same library has the Op.12 overture - score and parts; the Op.10 fantasiestücke; 6 Lieder, Op.9; the 2nd symphony and some other works, including some cadenzas for concertos by other composers) ; and a piano duet reduction of the overture Op.45 is mentioned in another library catalog (all, like Op.55, published by Stahl of Berlin).

(We have some of the works I mentioned @ IMSLP, it's true, though only half of Op.10 at present.)

[sdtom]

Across the pond I just received a copy of it and like others on this forum have similar experiences with the work, a new composer to me. My first listen was one of being bored with a piece that seemed to make no sense to me, sounded like many other works that didn't grab my attention at all. I went to this site to read what Alan and Mark had to say about it and I've decided to give it three more listens and then see what kind of opinion I form. It seems right now to have been all over the place.  I was settling in on his third movement a minuet style when there is a sudden tempo change a sense of urgency and a loud fortissimo followed by a return to the more calming part quite like the beginning of the movement which suddenly ends. Seems like it could have been a bit longer. Needs more listens for me.
Tom

[Alan Howe]

Unpredictability is the name of the game with Rudorff 3...

[sdtom]

you sure got that right Alan. Will give it more time before I pass judgment.
Tom

[sdtom]

I gave it a second listen and it did sound better to me however I can't hear how all of the movements are tied together according to what I read in the liner notes. Also does CPO plan on releasing the first two symphonies or has that already happened?
Tom

[Alan Howe]

There are no plans that I know of, Tom.

[eschiss1]

One can hear the 2nd symphony online, though (as well as read it online @ IMSLP).  See: this link.

[sdtom]

https://sdtom.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/symphony-no-3-variationsrudorff/

I'm glad I added this to my collection of material. As stated earlier repeated listens produced a better understanding of the piece.
Tom

[Gauk]

I found listening to Rudorff's 2nd to be intriguiging, so much as could be made of a very amateur performance extremely badly recorded, so I ordered the CPO release as soon as I saw it. I'm not sure that the 2nd isn't the better piece, but both require more attention. The 3rd is certainly a startling work. You find long passages that Brahms would have been quite comfortable with, and then suddenly the music lunges violently in another direction. I would draw attention particularly to the coda of the first movement as something to make you gasp. The work is really fascinating, and I'm sure will well replay further listening.

I don't agree with the contention of the writer of the notes that it represents the last ever Romantic symphony, though.

[eschiss1]

Ah, yay for tendentious notes.

[Alan Howe]

I don't agree with the contention of the writer of the notes that it represents the last ever Romantic symphony, though.

Quite, although it's probably one of the last in the tradition of Schuman/Brahms (along with, for example, Röntgen's roughly contemporary C minor Symphony).

[Balapoel]

Quite, although it's probably one of the last in the tradition of Schuman/Brahms (along with, for example, Röntgen's roughly contemporary C minor Symphony).

1910? Really? I'll have to check the idioms of several dozen symphonies since then...

Nope, there would be further symphonies along the same tradition by:
Hadley
Weingartner
Louis Glass
Stanford
Bischoff
Parry
Somervell
Tovey
(and that's just the next 3 years)

[Alan Howe]

OK, here's the thing:

Hadley - both Symphonies 2 and 4 contain an awful lot more Wagner/Dvorak/Strauss than Brahms.
Weingartner - had moved way beyond Brahms by 1910 (Symphony No.3 is hyper-Straussian).
Louis Glass - as much influenced by Bruckner or Dvorak as by Brahms.
Stanford - No.7 (1911) is roughly contemporary with Rudorff 3. He's certainly in the tradition.
Bischoff - far more Straussian than Brahmsian.
Parry - No.5 (1912) is roughly contemporary with Rudorff 3. He's also in the tradition.
Somervell - Thalassa Symphony has a lot of Tchaikovsky in it.
Tovey - D major Symphony (1913) is considerably beyond Brahms in idiom.

So, I'd accept Stanford and Parry as late co-perpetuators of an audibly Brahmsian tradition with Rudorff, but definitely not any of the others...

[eschiss1]

the program notes writer wrote "Romantic symphony", yes? Not "Schumann/Brahms" (actually, that should be "Schumann" and "Brahms", since the latter's symphonism is not a continuation of the former's), or else we're adding limits that aren't weren't in the claim.  (Of course, something like Furtwängler 2 - which I like, enjoy, am enthralled by even, a fair amount more than a lot of others who've heard it, combines, as noted by a reviewer in Fanfare Magazine* a few years ago -influence not just from Bruckner, Brahms, but also Dvorak and others- how much intentionally and how much through, erm, conductor's osmosis** (?), I certainly wouldn't know...)

*Of a 2-for-1 reissue of the Arte Nova recording of the (Furtwängler) 2nd symphony.  Two reviews, actually. (One criticized the program notes of the new issue for notes that were too general, lacking much information on the music- could they have been worse in this regard than the folder-notes to Barenboim's recording? I guess so...)

**given his very wide range of conducting repertoire, including Ewald Straesser***, Hindemith, Bartók, others, I should note there seems to have been some selectivity applied, by way of a by the way to the by the way of a by the way. Though since I don't know the Straesser works he conducted- I'd like to- he could have quoted them for all I know. (I didn't even know about the Tristan quote in Mahler 5's Adagietto until a few days ago- because I don't know Tristan at all well. Sad, no?)

***rather Romantic himself; indeed Straesser symphony 2 (D minor) was composed, I think, and certainly published, a few years after Rudorff 3, and belongs in the Romantic tradition if not in the Schumann or the Brahms tradition specifically; his E minor 4th quartet (published 1920) is at worst not too far from...

[Balapoel]

So, I'd accept Stanford and Parry as late co-perpetuators of an audibly Brahmsian tradition with Rudorff, but definitely not any of the others...

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion - and of course some weigh more than others here.

And I certainly could add much more beyond the 3 years further I surveyed, but i will not - others will have to guess.