Works for Piano, Chorus and Orchestra

[Peter1953]

We Raffians are very much looking forward to the release of Die Tageszeiten for Piano, Chorus and Orchestra.

It's a curious and rare combination. I was wondering whether Beethoven was the first who composed for Piano, Chorus and Orchestra? I am even wondering whether there are other similar works besides Beethoven's op. 80 and Raff's op. 209?

[Kriton]

I think I read Herz's 6th piano concerto has a chorus in its final movement - I read about it in one of the booklets of the Hyperion Herz releases (yes, Thal, I do own them...). If it's something special, why haven't they recorded it yet?

Busoni's 'op.XXXIX' is a 5 part concerto for piano & orchestra with a male chorus participating in its final movement. The piece has probably already been discussed in length on this forum. It has its opponents and its fans; I happen to love the piece.

Neither very unsung nor romantic, Mozart's aria 'Non temer, amato bene' is something of a revolutionary work - to my knowledge the first that combines piano, soprano & orchestra.

[albion]

It is an unusual combination, but one of the most enjoyable pieces is surely Constant Lambert's The Rio Grande (1929). Perhaps even better is George Dyson's The Blacksmiths (1933), "A Fantasy for Chorus, Pianoforte and Orchestra, from a Middle-English poem of the XIV Century, freely adapted".

For the latter, there is a choice of recordings, one in full orchestral guise (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Elgar-English-Choral-Tradition-Edward/dp/B00006RY51/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276533540&sr=8-3) and another with the composer's reduced scoring for piano duet, strings and tympani (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dyson-Choral-Works-Sir-George/dp/B00004TQR8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1276533540&sr=8-1). Both are well worth acquiring.

[albion]

Daniel Steibelt (1765-1823) may well have been the first to write for this combination - according to Wikipedia, "he generally ceased performing in 1814, but returned to the platform for his Concerto No. 8, which was premiered on March 16, 1820, in Saint Petersburg, and is notable for its choral finale. This was four years even before Beethoven's Symphony No. 9, and was the only piano concerto ever written (excluding Beethoven's Choral Fantasy) with a part for a chorus until Henri Herz's 6th concerto, Op 192 (1858) and Ferruccio Busoni's Piano Concerto (1904)."

[Gareth Vaughan]

Harold Schonberg says that the Steibelt choral piano concerto is lost - what a pity! I haven't seen the Herz concerto but (a) Mike Spring - who has looked at the vocal score says the choral finale is really banal, and (b) I have a feeling that the orchestral parts are missing, so that's why Hyperion have not recorded it.  Incidentally, the text is, I believe, a poem in praise of the Muslim faith!!!  The Piano Concerto by Alan Bush (1938) is a long work (nearly an hour) which has a baritone soloist and male voice chorus in the last movt. singing a "communist" text. Although written in a largely tonal language, it did not catch on - probably for political reasons.

[ahinton]

he Piano Concerto by Alan Bush (1938) is a long work (nearly an hour) which has a baritone soloist and male voice chorus in the last movt. singing a "communist" text. Although written in a largely tonal language, it did not catch on - probably for political reasons.

Doubtless so - it's a wonderful work for all that - and that's quite a "for all that", since the text that the composer set in its finale is too awful to contemplate, let alone hear sung, especially in a piece as fine as this concerto; one of the remarkable aspects of this work is that Bush somehow contrives almost to rescue it from this gravest of grave aberrations - and I put it like that not because of the communist leanings of that text so much as the fact that, as poetry, it is a halfpenny dreadful at best. Bush premièred the work as soloist under Adrian Boult who, it has been observed, was apparently so embarrassed by this text that, when the applause for the work and its composer/soloist began, he roundly silenced it with a demand that the orchestra should immediately drown it out by playing the British National Anthem.

Best,

Alistair

[Hovite]

Harold Schonberg says that the Steibelt choral piano concerto is lost - what a pity! I haven't seen the Herz concerto but (a) Mike Spring - who has looked at the vocal score says the choral finale is really banal, and (b) I have a feeling that the orchestral parts are missing, so that's why Hyperion have not recorded it.  Incidentally, the text is, I believe, a poem in praise of the Muslim faith!!!

That is surely the Busoni: "feel near to Allah, observe His work!"

The Piano Concerto by Alan Bush (1938) is a long work (nearly an hour) which has a baritone soloist and male voice chorus in the last movt. singing a "communist" text. Although written in a largely tonal language, it did not catch on - probably for political reasons.

Bush was a Soviet style composer: against the atonal, and for the workers. More here:

http://www.alanbushtrust.org.uk/music/compositions/CC.asp?room=Music

[Gareth Vaughan]

That is surely the Busoni: "feel near to Allah, observe His work!"

It's the Herz too. Though the words are not by Oelenschlaeger. According to the booklet notes on Hyperion's release of PCs 1, 7 & 8, the choral finale of No. 6 in A major features a hymn to "the sons of the Prophet" and ends with the words: 'Gloire au prophète Allah!'.

[JimL]

Wasn't Bush the guy who provided the orchestration for Lyrita's release of Stanford's 3rd PC?

That is surely the Busoni: "feel near to Allah, observe His work!"

It's the Herz too. Though the words are not by Oelenschlaeger. According to the booklet notes on Hyperion's release of PCs 1, 7 & 8, the choral finale of No. 6 in A major features a hymn to "the sons of the Prophet" and ends with the words: 'Gloire au prophète Allah!'.

Do you think Herz composed the concerto for a trip to Algiers?  Or perhaps to capitalize on the French craze for exoticism?

[chill319]

Re Mozart/Steibelt/Beethoven: as musical ensembles moved from continuo/leader-led groups to larger, conductor-led groups, there surely must have been numerous experiments vis a vis the evolving or diminishing role of the keyboard (and keyboard player). Some committed to manuscript, some not.

That being said, Beethoven's opus 80 was written to give all spotlighted performers in a specific concert a finale they could share in together. Even if it's not Beethoven's greatest concert piece, it was a brilliant programming stroke, and, as so often with his creative genius, took a general developing situation and made something bold and unexpectedly wonderful out of it.

[Kriton]

Or perhaps to capitalize on the French craze for exoticism?

Or rather, the centuries long European craze for orientalism... There appears to be a composer who wrote a 'Turkish' finale to one of his piano sonatas as well, a couple of decades before Herz...

[JimL]

I was thinking more along the lines of French colonialism in Arab North Africa!  And I think it was more like 8 decades!

[albion]

Wasn't Bush the guy who provided the orchestration for Lyrita's release of Stanford's 3rd PC?

That was Geoffrey Bush (1920-1998), not Alan!

[Kriton]

Wasn't Bush the guy who provided the orchestration for Lyrita's release of Stanford's 3rd PC?

That was Geoffrey Bush (1920-1998), not Alan!

Any relation to George W.?

[ahinton]

Wasn't Bush the guy who provided the orchestration for Lyrita's release of Stanford's 3rd PC?

That was Geoffrey Bush (1920-1998), not Alan!

Any relation to George W.?

None of them were related, actually - and I understand that Geoffrey of that ilk quite often resented being linked to Alan of that ilk...

Best,

Alistair