Symphonies for 2015 - here's wishing...

[Jonathan]

Ok not symphonies as such but ALL of the remaining unrecorded orchestral works by Liszt.

[Alan Howe]

Not symphonies at all then!
Anyway: What's left to record, Jonathan? Anything interesting?

[eschiss1]

... actually, after several (and several, and several) times re-reading my used-bookstore copy of volume 2 of Walker's (er-hrm. yes, very re-readable ) Liszt biography (volume 2, "The Weimar Years"), ... I'm interested too, and I'd extend the question myself (for another thread?) to include other still unrecorded obscure works of his. An IMSLP browse suggests that at the least there's a heck of a lot of still (!... despite Liszt completes in progress?) unpublished versions of other works, etc.? - doesn't speak to "recorded", that, though it could be related in some cases. Do the unrecorded works include any of the following orchestral versions-etc. -
*"Lyon" (piano version recorded a few times, not often, but not sure if the orchestral version's been?)
Going through the list @ IMSLP for instance, it -is- unclear whether "Ungarischer Marsch zur Krönungsfeier in Ofen-Pest am 8. Juni 1867" has been recorded in orchestral garb (S.118)...
or "Künstlerfestzug zur Schillerfeier 1859", or some others listed.

[Jonathan]

Hi All,
Here is my list of Liszt's orchestral works - anything that hasn't been recorded has no comment beside it (except where stated, below)!

Original Orchestral Works*:
S.1, Overture and Ballet music to Don Sanche, ou le Chateau d'Amour (recorded once)
S.95, Poème symphonique No. 1, Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne (Berg Symphonie) [first/second/third version] (1848–49, 1850, 1854)
S.96, Poème symphonique No. 2, Tasso, Lamento e Trionfo [first/second/third version] (1849, 1850–51, 1854)
S.97, Poème symphonique No. 3, Les Préludes (1848)
S.98, Poème symphonique No. 4, Orpheus (1853–54)
S.99, Poème symphonique No. 5, Prometheus [first/second version] (1850, 1855)
There is a recording of the early version of the 5th Symphonic Poem, Prometheus which is based on the orchestration by Joachim Raff; it was recorded by the Württemberg Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Roberto Paternostro.  It is vastly different to the final version and may correspond to the 1850 version mentioned above!
S.100, Poème symphonique No. 6, Mazeppa [first/second version] (1851, b. 1854)
S.101, Poème symphonique No. 7, Festklänge [revisions added to 1863 pub] (1853)
S.102, Poème symphonique No. 8, Héroïde funèbre [first/second version] (1849–50, 1854)
S.103, Poème symphonique No. 9, Hungaria (1854)
S.104, Poème symphonique No. 10, Hamlet (1858)
S.105, Poème symphonique No. 11, Hunnenschlacht (1856–57)
S.106, Poème symphonique No. 12, Die Ideale (1857)
S.107, Poème symphonique No. 13, Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe (From the Cradle to the Grave) (1881–82)
S.108, Eine Faust-Symphonie [first/second version] (1854, 1861)
S.109, Eine Symphonie zu Dante's Divina Commedia (1855–56)
S.110, Deux épisodes d'apres le Faust de Lenau [2 pieces] (1859–61)
S.111, Zweite Mephisto Waltz (1881)
S.112, Trois Odes Funèbres [3 pieces] (1860–66) (recorded once) – original version lacks chorus
S.113, Salve Polonia (1863) (recorded once)
S.114, Künstlerfestzug zur Schillerfeier (1857) (recorded once)
S.115, Festmarsch zur Goethejubiläumsfeier [first/second version] (1849, 1857)
S.116, Festmarsch nach Motiven von E.H.z.S.-C.-G. (1857)
S.117, Rákóczy March (1865) (recorded once)
S.118, Ungarischer Marsch zur Krönungsfeier in Ofen-Pest (am 8 Juni 1867) (1870)
S.119, Ungarischer Sturmmarsch (1875) (recorded twice, possibly?)
S.150, Impromptu Brilliant sur des themes du Rossini et Spontini – sketches exist, don't know how complete these are

* = The works numbered S95 – 110 have all been recorded many times but only in their final versions (apart from the Faust Symphony)

There are also large orchestral sections in: The Legend of Saint Elizabeth (S2), Christus (S3) and the Hungarian Coronation Mass (S.11, see also S362, below) and may be some orchestral sections in sketches held in Weimar for an opera after Byron's Sarandanapale (S687).

S.347, Recitation with orchestra, Vor hundred Jahren (after F.Halm) (unpublished)
S.390, Revolutionary Symphony – not sure what state the manuscript may be in, was cannibalised for Heroide Funebre and various other later works.

Transcriptions:
Bülow - S.351 Mazurka Fantasie, Op. 13 (1865)
Cornelius - S.352 Second Overture to The Barber of Baghdad [completed from Cornelius's sketches] (1877)
Egressy and Erkel - S.353 Szózat und Hymnus (1873) (has been recorded by Arpad Joo)
Liszt –
S.354 Deux légendes (1863) (recorded at least twice)
S.355 Vexilla regis prodeunt (1864)
S.356 Festvorspiel (1857)
S.357 Huldigungsmarsch [first & second versions] (1853, 1857)
S.358 Vom Fels zum Meer. Deutscher Siegesmarsch (1860)
S.359 6 Rapsodies hongroises (Hungarian Rhapsodies) (recorded several times)
S.360, A la chapelle Sixtine (Liszt, Allegri & Mozart) [orchestral arrangement of S461, based on Mozart's Ave verum corpus and Allegri's Misere] (1862) (recorded twice at least)
S.361 Pio IX. Der Papsthymnus (ca. 1863)
S.362 Benedictus and Offertorium from the Hungarian Coronation Mass [from S11] (1875)
Schubert - S.363 4 Marches [from Opp. 40, 54, 121] (1859–60) (possibly the Hungarian March has been recorded)
Zarembski - S.364, Danses galiciennes (1881) (score of all 3 only rediscovered in 1997)


This was written by me in 2011 as I was interested to know how much was still left...it may now be slightly out of date!
Hope this helps..

[Mark Thomas]

Thank you Jonathan. Perhaps I can clarify the question of the "first version" of the symphonic poem Prometheus?

This work originated as the Overture to a choral work by Liszt titled "Prometheus Unbound: Dramatic Scenes by J.G. von Herder". That had its only performance in August 1850 and consisted of the Overture, eight choruses and several melodramas. These were interspersed by spoken extracts from Herder's text, and the whole work lasted around two hours; the musical elements accounted for just over half of that. Raff, who had just joined Liszt as his amanuensis, assembled the work from many unlinked sketches and partly completed short scores which Liszt had made for it.  The orchestration of the whole work is Raff's, as are some structural elements, but it would be misleading to think that Liszt simply left Raff to get on with the job unsupervised. What was performed in 1850 was Raff's creation, with a large element of original Raff in the work, but based on Liszt's material. It was not only put together with Liszt's approval, but was credited as his composition at the premiere. The complete work was never published, although Raff's manuscript from which Liszt conducted the performance has survived in Weimar. I have a copy.

The 2002 Paternostro performance (see a review at raff.org here) is of the Prometheus Overture in Raff's original version, for which there is a modern score available from Edition Nordstern of Stuttgart. The same work has now been recorded commercially, and will very shortly be available on CD from Sterling (details here).

In 1855 Liszt revised the Overture as a Symphonic Poem, re-orchestrating it and radically revising its structure. The choruses were also rewritten by him and published separately as Choruses from Herder's Prometheus Unbound. Some details of Raff's contribution remain in each, but these two works in their final form are effectively 100% Liszt.

But we really should get back to Symphonies....

[Alan Howe]

Thank you, Jonathan - most interesting.

[eschiss1]

Büttner's first three symphonies? We have uploads of them, two of them (nos. 2 and 3) have been reissued in score by MPH Munich, and they seem to be good stuff...
The symphonies of Emilie Mayer and Johanna Senfter that I've heard have me wanting to hear more of them.
Planning on having a look at Georges-Martin Witkowski's D minor first symphony soonish by interloan; but I expect I'd be interested, even score unskimmed, in hearing that too. (Been doing a lot of score-interloaning etc. lately, sometimes to fill in the movement headers of works from our upload sections- and of course to read along...  this has been fun )

It's hard to choose though. (Here's wishing: what I wish for for classical music recording in 2015 is that the classical music recording industry will, and will have reason to*, spread its wings, gain courage, record more music in better performances generally, and not just from under-served unsung (Romantic and otherwise) symphonic repertoire alone... not holding my breath here, of course.


* Watching "Jeopardy" lately- the rarity of categories about classical music, the poor performance of otherwise bright people in this one category, relatively speaking, when you get beyond the most obvious of questions ("What letter does Beethoven's last name start with?" "V?" "P?" "B!"...) ...- I am NOT sanguine...

[Jonathan]

Thanks Mark - most informative!

[Gauk]

I would love to have a good modern recording of the symphony in B minor by Louis Thirion, a major piece of French late Romantic orchestral writing ... http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4297.0

Or hear it for yourself ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOVUSI3FZ8

[DennisS]

I would love to have a commercial recording of Cornelis Dopper Symphony no 1 Diana. I already have the download of this symphony which can still be found in UC's Archive section. I would love to have even more Dopper's symphonies nos 4 & 5 - neither work appears to have ever been recorded for commercial release.

[eschiss1]

I'd be interested in Thirion's first symphony (in E-flat) too (Op.12, published by Durand in 1912) though that one I haven't heard. (He also arranged reductions Ropartz' 2nd, 3rd, & 4th symphonies, btw. Publishers Baudoux (ca.1900), Joanin & Cie., pub.1906) and Boston Music Co. (©1914). (Worldcat lists other works of Ropartz listed by Thirion (e.g.: "Quasi Lento de la sonate pour violoncelle et piano. Transcription pour orgue par Louis Thirion", pub.ca. 1911) and a number of letters between the two; at a guess they knew each other at least on a business basis.)

(Still, yes, between the chamber works by Thirion uploaded to IMSLP and the 2nd symphony in B minor (Eschig, pub. in reduction in 1923; the full score is listed by Worldcat as still offered by the publisher, Salabert-Durand-Eschig for rent, or something. Likewise this first sym. ...)...)

Thirion shares a name with (and may be closely related to???) a once well-known sci-fi author, also - I forget the details...

[Alan Howe]

Never heard of Thirion. What do we know about him?

[jerfilm]

Louis Thirion  (1879-1966)

His Symphony #2 in b is here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNOVUSI3FZ8

And that's the extent of my knowledge   

J

[eschiss1]

From French Music, Culture, and National Identity, 1870-1939, ed.Kelly, p.240, linked on IMSLP:

"The 'Concert des Lorrains' also featured works by a young composer who was very much involved in the musical life of the region: Louis Thirion. Born in Baccarat in 1879, he studied with Guy Ropartz and taught piano and organ at the Conservatoire in Nancy." (from 1898-1949, acc. to the link below.)

That's all I have, at this time. See also this link (from BNF, in French.)

[Alan Howe]

Thanks very much indeed!