Piano concertos

[giles.enders]

My principle interest is classical & romantic piano concertos. For the sake of completeness I wish someone would record Cesar Francks first piano concertos in B. All Francks' other compositions for piano and orchestra have been recorded. Similarly   Ignaz Brull's Rhapsody for piano and orchestra, Sergei Bortkiewicz's Russian Rhapsody, Alexander Dreyshock's Grand Fantasy, William Sterndale Bennett's piano concerto no. 6 in A minor. The last one has not been recorded thanks to the obstructiveness of the owner of the manuscript. This list would clear up the remainders, so to speak, of these composers. I am aware that there are many other composers of music for piano and orchestra who have only had some of their music recorded. In many cases a lot of work would be required on the scores.

[thalbergmad]

I am sure many of us echo your post Giles.

If you are the same Giles that put together pianoconcerto.org, I am intensely grateful for your work as this gave me a lot of ideas.

Cost me a b****y fortune as well

Thal

[Jonathan]

I echo Thal's sentiments! 
Giles, I believe that Franck's first piano concerto (Op.9 - I think) is lost.  I have an ancient CD at home which says this and I have never seen any evidence to the contrary.  Of course, there is always a chance someone may find it at some point...

[Martin Eastick]

Giles - the Reinceke Konzertstuck Op33 HAS been recorded - and is available on the German ebs label together with other Reinecke works, although the G minor Serenade Op242 is a duplication  http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Carl-Heinrich-Reinecke-Konzertst%FCck-op-33-f%FCr-Klavier-Orchester/hnum/3563209

[Gareth Vaughan]

I would love to see the full score of Dreyschock's Grand Fantasy. However, I believe it and/or the orchestral parts are probably no longer extant. A concertante piano piece of his which does still exist (and I have a MS copy) is the Rondo for piano & orchestra, Op. 32 (the orchestra is, in fact, strings only + triangle), and I would like very much to see this recorded. If the Grand Fantasy full score could be found, the 3 Concert Pieces for piano and orchestra by Dreyschock could be put on one CD, together with his Concert Overture (the orchestral score of which is in the Prague Municipal Library) - which would be the sum of his orchestral oeuvres (given that the PC has already been committed to CD).

[Rob H]

Hi Giles,
The Reinecke Konzertstuck has also been recorded by Joshua Pierce on MSR Classics. It is coupled with Hummel Rondo Brilliant op56, Czerny Introduction and rondo brilliante op255, Mendelssohn Rondo brilliante op29 and Weber's Konzertstuck.
http://www.msrcd.com/1196/1196.html

[albion]

William Sterndale Bennett's piano concerto no. 6 in A minor [...] has not been recorded thanks to the obstructiveness of the owner of the manuscript.

This is one of the craziest situations I can think of: many significant orchestral and concertante works by major British composers are lost completely, many operas and choral works are extant only in the form of printed vocal scores due to the loss or destruction of autograph manuscripts. Here we have the bizarre case of a work that is known to exist in full score but which cannot be accessed (let alone performed or recorded) simply because of a selfish whim - what a mockery to Sterndale Bennett's life, work and reputation.  With custodians like this, who needs world wars, publisher's fires or careless composers!

A similar case arose following the sale of Arthur Sullivan's autograph scores at Sotheby's in 1966. A collector privately bought a number including The Beauty Stone and The Rose and Persia (both of which subsequently turned out to contain important deleted numbers) and then spent the next thirty-odd years denying all knowledge. Thankfully, they were willed to Oriel College and are now safely at the Bodleian.

[eschiss1]

Some works I can think of, (some film scores, and at least one "concert" a cappella work by Benjamin Frankel as well- I believe it's "The Isle is Full of Noises" from 1957...) exist only as recordings of one kind or another, too, _all_ performance material having been apparently lost!
Eric

[albion]

Loss and destruction I can deplore but nevertheless understand. However, the psychology of secretive acquisition and personal exclusivity with regard to works of art defeats me: what on earth is the point?

Is it simply a "you know I've got it but you can't look at it" mentality or a perverse dog-in-the-manger: grudging others what one cannot truly enjoy oneself?

[Gareth Vaughan]

This is one of the craziest situations I can think of: many significant orchestral and concertante works by major British composers are lost completely, many operas and choral works are extant only in the form of printed vocal scores due to the loss or destruction of autograph manuscripts. Here we have the bizarre case of a work that is known to exist in full score but which cannot be accessed (let alone performed or recorded) simply because of a selfish whim - what a mockery to Sterndale Bennett's life, work and reputation.  With custodians like this, who needs world wars, publisher's fires or careless composers!

Don't get me started. Alan and Mark will tell you how vituperative I waxed on this very subject on the old forum.

[thalbergmad]

However, the psychology of secretive acquisition and personal exclusivity with regard to works of art defeats me: what on earth is the point?

I was astounded when the man who spent $90,000,000 on "A Portrait of Doctor Gachet"  had it locked up in a bank vault without seeing it.

Perhaps with a work of art, it loses value when it is displayed and a music manuscript loses value when it is performed??

It is all a mystery to me.

Thal

[albion]

a work of art [...] loses value when it is displayed and a music manuscript loses value when it is performed

I think that just about sums it up - the acme of selfishness. The very fact of exclusive ownership (of something that other human beings would like access to, but which you have the power to withold) becomes an addictive fetish. The keyword is 'exclusive': once others can enjoy the object either visually or aurally, the appeal of the object for the owner vanishes in an instant.

The very idea of 'ownership' of a cultural object is anathema to many (including myself) - unless one is the actual creator, then there is no claim other than that of 'custodian'. The responsible custodian would do everything in his power to promote the work of art in his care, thus proving its value, but unfortunately many individuals charged with this role simply don't know how to share because they have not yet matured beyond the infantile stage.

[Gareth Vaughan]

I wholly agree, Albion.

[thalbergmad]

Does anyone actually know this chap that owns said Sterndale Bennett 6 and perhaps an e mail address??

I was thinking that everyone has their "Price".

Thal

[chill319]

Returning to unrecorded piano concertos, most participants in this forum are probably familiar with the claim that Jan Dussek was the first to place the piano on stage in a position that displayed the pianist's profile to good advantage. A dubious distinction, perhaps, but one that had a permanent influence.

This was, of course, well before the advent of the solo recital. So The Profile likely debuted with a concerto. One wonders if it would have influenced anyone had the musical accompaniment been undistinguished or laughable.

To the contrary, everything I've seen suggests that Dussek's concertos were, at the very least, models of early 19th-century compositional practice. (It is well established that his sonatas were of interest to Beethoven, who drew on them multiple times).

The concertos, then, would seem to be a link between those of Mozart and Chopin, as were Hummel's, Field's and Weber's. Making the concertos available on CD in robust performances would likely interest many listeners.