Cross-connections

[eschiss1]

In the time since the forum has re-focused on Romantic music, it seems to me we've maybe gotten a bit hung up on harmony and dissonance- hardly the defining features of what is and isn't "Romantic" music- and we've spent relatively little time discussing some of those qualities which unified sung and unsung, Mendelssohnian and Lisztian music- their associations with the other arts, their increasing freedom of form (symphonic poems, ballads, the growth of the lied, etc.)  -- which influenced unsung composers as much as sung and are worth discussing in general terms as well as specific here, I think.  In superficial terms, who were the favorite poets of some of our favorite unsungs? In more interesting terms, how did their Romanticism "show" in their choice and treatment of genres (and - well - &c...) (some of these obviously interesting questions with e.g. Raff, who in addition to symphonies composed works like Die Tageszeiten which while not unheard-of before the early 19th century, well- the manner and matter of similar works then were- anyhow. Complicated story to the extent I know anything about it, but I'm here to learn...)

I remember reading in a biography of a well-known 20th-century composer just recently how rarely the Romantics set music by Hölderlin (yes, easy to guess which 20th-century composer this was, even if one hasn't read the biography. Hint- born 1913.) The only counterexample that came to the author's mind was the Schicksalslied by Brahms. (Whether the author was aware of Reger, Pfitzner and Cornelius' Hölderlin-settings (and works by Diepenbrock and Richard Strauss...) (or just meant "major" works...) , I don't know.) Still... so for example (though I think of this topic as a broader one) any others by "our" composers?...

[sdtom]

Quite an interesting topic. I look forward to lots of responses. As you said I'm here to learn also.
Tom

[Alan Howe]

I remember reading in a biography of a well-known 20th-century composer just recently how rarely the Romantics set music by Hölderlin

Wikipedia - rightly, I think - suggests a reason for this:

The poetry of Hölderlin, widely recognized today as one of the highest points of German literature, was little known or understood during his lifetime, and slipped into obscurity shortly after his death; his illness and reclusion made him fade from his contemporaries' consciousness – and, even though selections of his work were published by his friends during his lifetime, it was largely ignored for the rest of the 19th century.

On a personal note, I had to prepare a response to Hölderlin's poem Hälfte des Lebens 20 minutes before my (successful) interview for university, so the poet played an important part in my early life...

[mikehopf]

Yes, an interesting topic, to be sure.

Mention of Bocklin in another UC thread got me thinking about artistic inspirations.

There's Reger, Huber, Woyrsch inspired by Bocklin's pictures and , of course, Moussorsky's Pictures at an Exhibition.

Any more?

[eschiss1]

Thanks for that about Hölderlin. Interesting! I wonder how many of the settings that do exist were published before his poetry was moveable-type-published, and how the composers came into possession of the manuscripts- Cornelius' setting (composed in 1862, published in the 1890s, it seems?) of Sonnenuntergang (later (1915) set by Robert Kahn) preceding Brahms' 1868 Schicksalslied, for instance (on a text also set by E J Wolff in or before 1907- that last poem (Hyperions Schicksalslied) however -was- I think (according to Worldcat? - guessing here, would have to do more research later... hrm......) published by Cotta in 1846 in a complete?? edition ("v.1 "Gedichte und Hyperion", v.2. Nachlass & Biographie)

[sdtom]

I think the most popular you overlooked was Rachmaninoff. Others are Andreas Hallen, Fritz Lubrich.
Tom

[eschiss1]

I looked over that last comment ("I think the...") with some confusion, since Rachmaninoff did not to my knowledge write any Hölderlin settings prior to 1890 (or perhaps at all), before realizing that the "you" in question referred not to me but to "mikehopf", of course (and to Bocklin-inspired works, as a quick check of Hallen-stuffs confirmed...) and perfectly obviously, referring to his post - 2 entries (though also a month) ago.

[sdtom]

It was suggested to me on another forum that I use the quote function to avoid any confusion which I did and still do. It was nicely suggested to me that I don't  do this on this forum which I complied to. I hope that Mark sees this thread and the reason to why. Whatever the decision I will gladly abide by.
Tom

[Mark Thomas]

Tom, it's quoting the whole of the immediately previous post which is redundant,  not quoting a relevant part of it,  or quoting a post which is several posts earlier in the thread.

[sdtom]

okay
Tom