Request for assistance

[Gareth Vaughan]

I have seen a lot of parts from Fleisher - and all that I have seen have been perfectly legible. Perhaps I've just been lucky!

[MartinH]

Yes, some are quite well done - and maybe it was the (un)luck of the draw. I went there years ago to do some research. The scores I sought were either engraved or really well copied. Alas, some of the parts were abysmal - just like some that come from Kalmus.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Ah yes, the Kalmus parts - famous for their plethora of egregious errors.

[pcc]

What of the Chadwick symphonies? 2 & 3 have been recorded, but are never played in the concert hall. And nobody's done ANYTHING with his No. 1 of 1881, the very readable MS full score of which just appeared on IMSLP. (I think there are parts at the New England Conservatory.) Or the John Knowles Paine gorgeous 2nd Symphony - parts of which are at Fleisher - which hasn't had much (or any) of an airing since Zubin Mehta and the NYPO recorded it over 20 years ago. I could also recommend Henry Hadley's 2nd, "The Four Seasons", which is quite wonderful and hasn't even been re-recorded since the Karl Krueger days.

Live performance is such a crucial element, but audiences, players, and management are really clamping down these days. Several years ago, we had Armild Remmereit as conductor of the Rochester Philharmonic, and in his one season here he did, among other things, Amy Beach's symphony and William Henry Fry's Macbeth overture, and both were stunning performances (he gave by far the best reading of the Beach I've ever heard). Talk about unsung, especially the Fry. Unfortunately, he ran afoul of management and some of the players, was unceremoniously sacked (against public opinion), and we now have Ward Stare who conducts a very uninteresting same-old repertoire very well, suiting the players, most of the patrons, and the benefactors here, fitting into the fashionable "young virtuoso" mold, and (to be honest) working very hard and honorably within an unpromising financial situation. I should go and support them, but there's little in the concerts to interest me, so my money sadly goes to recorded music and scores.

[Alan Howe]

Or the John Knowles Paine gorgeous 2nd Symphony - parts of which are at Fleisher - which hasn't had much (or any) of an airing since Zubin Mehta and the NYPO recorded it over 20 years ago.

Well, Falletta has recorded it for Naxos:
http://www.mdt.co.uk/paine-orchestral-works-vol-2-joann-falletta-naxos-american-classics.html

Not really 'gorgeous' in my view - the work's too pedestrian to go that far...

By the way, the Mehta recording was done in 1986 - how time flies!

[jdperdrix]

I suggest Léon Boëllmann's Symphony in F op. 24.
No recording available (except a very old broadcast), 35 minutes long, created 1892, requiring the classical romantic orchestra, in a Franckian idiom. After recent resurrection of other French symphonies of the period, by Vierne and Widor, this one is still neglected. Parts are available on rental from Durand-Salabert-Eschig (cat #313) and the full score can be obtained from the Bibliothèque Nationale de France for a nominal fee.

That was my suggestion. I've recently discovered that this symphony had been performed by a semi-professional orchestra. A private CD of their concert has been issued, which I was able to buy.
http://www.orchestredelalliance.fr/Pages/ecouter.html

[UnsungMasterpieces]

You could try some of the tone poems by Vitezslav Novak.

[pcc]

I'll have to listen to the Falletta of the Paine 2. I think the opening and much of the last movement _is_ gorgeous; if you really need to use the word "pedestrian" for anything, I would say it more applies to the Paine 1st Symphony (and much other repertoire discussed here, but I wouldn't have the ill-grace to single things out so dismissively if presumably educated people enjoy the works enough to praise them... And again, when can we hear it live? I had never thought much of the Beach symphony until it was done here - I actually agreed with some of the original critics who thought it "overwritten" - but Remmereit's performance showed it could have fire, colour, and melodic style.

The CD culture is becoming really depressing.

[eschiss1]

Did a search to try to answer that last question, and one thing I do see is that his "As You Like It" overture was performed by Ronald Feldman and the Longwood Symphony Orchestra on December 7 2013, so that's something anyway...

[Alan Howe]

I wouldn't have the ill-grace to single things out so dismissively if presumably educated people enjoy the works enough to praise them...

Hmmm. It seems that ill-grace often characterises the person whose precious opinion someone else has the temerity to disagree with.

Oh yes, Paine 2 does have some gorgeous moments, even sections - but that's a far cry from being gorgeous overall, which was what was implied. Nope sorry: the piece is too long and of insufficient inspiration overall to justify the description.

Of course, this is just an opinion. But I think I can justify it.

Now for something truly gorgeous throughout, try the Lassen VC. And you are welcome to disagree with my assessment of it. Perhaps it's merely pedestrian after all...

[pcc]

I would say these are all opinions, not facts. And I suppose we should let Ilja decide what is of sufficient interest to program, as was the original intent of this strand as I understood it.

[Alan Howe]

Well, there must be some factual basis for our opinions, otherwise there would be no basis for debate at all. For there to be debate, there must surely be a shared understanding of what terms like 'gorgeous' or 'pedestrian' mean.

[pcc]

Is this a suggestion to Ilja, as we are the only two people who have ventured widely differing opinions on a work, or an opening of a new topic? I am hesitant to say anything to counter words like "nope" and "pedestrian", though I could if it was warranted and pertinent. I didn't make my suggestion frivolously or without conviction, but I apologize for my response to your negative opinion.  This is becoming needlessly challenging. I think Ilja can make a judgment on his own if he hears and examines the work for the purpose originally stated, and as you have pointed out to others before in other circumstances, this seems to be straying from the original topic.

[Alan Howe]

I'd say this thread probably has run its course. Unless Ilja objects, perhaps it's time to close it.

[Gareth Vaughan]

I agree. Let us wait to hear from Ilja as to what he has chosen and success he may have. And thank everyone for their suggestions.