Johann Cramer 1771-1858

[giles.enders]

I had hoped that when Howard Shelley recorded the Cramer piano concertos Nos 2,7,& 8 for Chandos it would be the start of a complete set but alas---.  I have a recording of No5.  Are there recordings of the others and the Concerti da Camera in Bflat.

[thalbergmad]

Regretfully not as far as I know and it is a great shame.

The Reminiscences of England Op.75 & Reminiscences of Scotland Op.73 could do with a recording as well, if parts still exist.

Not sure if Banks of the Liffey Op.76 and Le Retour a Vienne Op. 85 are worthwhile as they are still piled up on my piano awaiting playing.

The 4th Concerto appealed to me if I recall correctly, but it was yonks ago that I played it.

Thal

[Gareth Vaughan]

I was similarly disappointed by Chandos' reluctance to record more of Cramer's piano concertante works. I hope someone can be persuaded to take an interest there - though Howard Shelley was, of course, ideal.
Things seem to have gone rather quiet with Naxos' series of Ries piano concertos (etc.). I hope that enterprise hasn't stalled.

[Peter1953]

I have that Chandos CD too, and Cramer's PC 5. Nice concertos, but rather classical, except for no. 8. I also have the Seven Late Sonatas (opp. 53, 58, 59, 62, 63, 69 and 74) played by John Khouri on a Broadwood Grand Fortepiano (1813).
In my opinion Cramer is one of those composers whose solo piano works sound more interesting, more "Pre Romantic" than the orchestral works. My problem is that I cannot get used to the metallic sound of a fortepiano. I simply don't like it. And that's a pity, because those sonatas are really well-crafted, brilliant piano works.

[JimL]

I wasn't too impressed with the Cramer concertos.  He styled himself a "neo-Mozartean" but his concertos sound old-fashioned in their solo/tutti relations even compared to Mozart.

[wunderkind]

I agree - found them boring and uninspired.  Gave away the CD to an unsuspecting friend.   

[eschiss1]

I wasn't too impressed with the Cramer concertos.  He styled himself a "neo-Mozartean" but his concertos sound old-fashioned in their solo/tutti relations even compared to Mozart.

"Even" compared to ... Er-Hrm.
(The best of Mozart's piano concertos get very intricate in that department.  In Girdlestone's opinion (Mozart and His Piano Concertos), and in mine...)
Eric

[JimL]

I was thinking pre-K. 450 with the winds ad libitum.  Cramer, I don't think ever juxtaposes solo and winds in his first movements even once.  I probably should break out that CD and check...

[eschiss1]

I was thinking pre-K. 450 with the winds ad libitum.  Cramer, I don't think ever juxtaposes solo and winds in his first movements even once.  I probably should break out that CD and check...

Ah, gotcha (actually, the ad libitum description of K449 may be more for convenience, to allow for some chamber performances if needed, than an accurate description of the music, in which there is some nice interplay.  I have a soft spot in my heart for that weird E-flat piano concerto (and come to think of it, quite a few of those he wrote after, and one before- K271, not surprisingly) - the three of K413-5, much less so.
Anyhow, apologies. Still, will look into Cramer - the local uni library has some. Bilson seems to think well of him...

[giles.enders]

Someone mentioned the Naxos/Ries series.  I believe they recorded Nos 4&5 ) Op 115 & 120 some while ago.  I don't know what has happened since.

[JimL]

Just listened to Cramer 2 and the 1st movement of 7.  He doesn't use winds in combination with the solo at all at any point that I can tell (except perhaps at the end of a cadential trill where the tutti starts up). 

Okay.  The two later concertos have some solo/wind interplay in the second movements and finales, but certainly not at the level of mature Mozart, Hummel, Field, Moscheles, Herz or Kalkbrenner.  There are no confrontations between piano and full orchestra, despite the fact that Cramer was probably playing the same instruments that Beethoven was.  I must admit the piano writing is forward-looking in spots, but the language is beyond conservative even for its time.

[giles.enders]

The pianist Nicholas Walker is preparing an edition of all Cramer's piano concertos, the first of which he has already played.  He is planning to record all of them .  It is good to know that they are in the hands of such a fine pianist.

[eschiss1]

as to Naxos and Ries, the sonatas series at least is continuing (see http://www.naxos.com/upcomingreleases.asp) and the most recent release in the concertos series was indeed nos. 4 and 5 in October (see here- as a physical release, not a download.) That's not that quiet.

[thalbergmad]

The pianist Nicholas Walker is preparing an edition of all Cramer's piano concertos, the first of which he has already played.  He is planning to record all of them .  It is good to know that they are in the hands of such a fine pianist.

Splendid news, it would be great to hear all of them.

Thal