The neglected: how to get them respected

[Alan Howe]

What I'm suggesting is that musical blindness and ignorance can happen to anyone, exposed to the music or not

Quite so. The problem, of course, is that it afflicts those who write on music too - who should know better, work harder to combat their prejudices and, above all, take time to explore those areas about which they are ignorant. Blind critics cannot help with others' blind spots, after all; in fact they're more likely to induce blindness in them...

[Double-A]

The problem, of course, is that it afflicts those who write on music too - who should know better, work harder to combat their prejudices and, above all, take time to explore those areas about which they are ignorant. Blind critics cannot help with others' blind spots, after all; in fact they're more likely to induce blindness in them...

I don't have much faith in this possibility:  People who write about music write about it because they have strong opinions on it.  And strong opinions are harder to change than regular strength opinions.  What is more they are on record with these opinions, unlike us regular folks.  People don't like contradicting their record; it requires explanation (if only in their own minds).  Much easier to find reasons to keep thinking of Raff as "second rate".

Maybe we ought to look at the bright side for a second:  Imagine a world with no undeservedly unsung composers!  Where would be the pleasure of discovering and "excavating" hidden treasures?  This pleasure, I feel, is what drives many members of this forum.

[dwshadle]

The problem, of course, is that it afflicts those who write on music too - who should know better, work harder to combat their prejudices and, above all, take time to explore those areas about which they are ignorant. Blind critics cannot help with others' blind spots, after all; in fact they're more likely to induce blindness in them...

I don't have much faith in this possibility:  People who write about music write about it because they have strong opinions on it.  And strong opinions are harder to change than regular strength opinions.  What is more they are on record with these opinions, unlike us regular folks.  People don't like contradicting their record; it requires explanation (if only in their own minds).  Much easier to find reasons to keep thinking of Raff as "second rate".

Maybe we ought to look at the bright side for a second:  Imagine a world with no undeservedly unsung composers!  Where would be the pleasure of discovering and "excavating" hidden treasures?  This pleasure, I feel, is what drives many members of this forum.

In a sense it is a self-perpetuating cycle. People who do new and open-minded research--musicologists--can't get literary agents to buy into their work (because it isn't on Beethoven, or whatever). People who have built-in public platforms--critics--can write something that is 1/10 new on Beethoven and will make a killing. So everyone follows the money without really considering other potential opportunities or markets.

[Alan Howe]

It's sad, though, isn't it? One would like to think that writers on music/critics/musicologists would be interested in the pursuit of something a little more noble than money. Surely the job of any self-respecting academic is to question received opinions - or at least to examine them in the light of new research and knowledge to find out whether they still stand up...

[ignaceii]

There is a fantastic radio, also on internet, the dutch canal concerzender.nl
This radio has a lot of attention for the unknown. An example, they had a series of episodes on Hummel. They called the programs, each 1 hour, A second chance for Huummel. The presentator for the first episode cynically dismayed the standard repertoire, and welcomed all those tired of a terrain, repertoire turned into a swamp.
It is a radio with presentators.
All symphonies from Myaskovsky are also covered.
And so on...
A tip maybe for the fans. I know, dutch which I am too, can be a hurdle, but the whole world needs to speak english, and understand, which isn't fair either.

[sdtom]

I can't see much in the way of any significant money in the way book sales especially in the field of classical music Beethoven or not. These books I feel for the most part are all about ego or getting their doctorate. Or am I wrong?
Tom

[Mark Thomas]

You are indeed wrong, Tom. Read Christopher Fifield''s excellent recent book for example.

[eschiss1]

Even some of the dissertation-books are well worth reading, in my opinion (especially if they can be downloaded for free; though sometimes you have to know or at least be able to skim the language, or at least that part which has most to do with music.)
There are now more books to do with certain late-Romantic and mid-20th Russian Romantic composers than it seems there have been in some time (a fine recent German book on Robert Fuchs, several books on Myaskovsky including the first ever written in English I believe (as opposed to Ikonnikov's 70-year-old translated-into), Beaumont's imho excellent Zemlinsky biography, &c...)

[Double-A]

I believe sdtom intended mainly to argue that there is not sufficient money in books about (sung) composers to motivate lots of people to write them, i.e. those that are written are written out of non pecuniary motives.  This in response to hints in earlier posts that books on e.g. Beethoven create big profits for their authors while books on Raff or Onslow would not.

[ignaceii]

All about books. Nobody responding on my last post as initiator.
Seems to me this is a club where everybody knows everybody, but not the stranger coming with food to talk about. The way you all address each other. My my.
I will not put much energy in it anymore.
And the main question, how to get them respected, no one. Bla, bla, bla... As little creativity as our current musicians.
Well, 64 replies, not bad. But what have we got. A lions club chat.
I write to Lars Vogt about it, great german pianist, head of a new festival in the summer.
I will do it myself...
Go on...

[ignaceii]

70 replies.
Bye...

[Mark Thomas]

I don't know what you expected, or what you have to complain about either. Still, it's your choice.

[Alan Howe]

And the main question, how to get them respected, no one. Bla, bla, bla... As little creativity as our current musicians.

On the contrary, there's been plenty of food for thought on offer here. And after all, if it were an easy problem to solve, there would be no need for a forum such as this.
Best wishes,
Alan Howe

[dwshadle]

I believe sdtom intended mainly to argue that there is not sufficient money in books about (sung) composers to motivate lots of people to write them, i.e. those that are written are written out of non pecuniary motives.  This in response to hints in earlier posts that books on e.g. Beethoven create big profits for their authors while books on Raff or Onslow would not.

Yes, and I didn't mean to suggest that a book on Beethoven generates "big profits," only that Beethoven is one of the few topics that will entice a trade publisher to move ahead with a potentially interesting classical music title. See, for example, Matthew Guerrieri's The First Four Notes: Beethoven's Fifth and the Human Imagination. This book is more or less only about the famous four-note motive in Beethoven's Fifth. Try writing a book on the "Satan's Horn Call" melody in Templeton Strong's Sintram Symphony, and I don't think it would get very far!

Then also consider a title like Christopher Fifield's book on German symphonies between Beethoven and Brahms. It is thorough and easy to read, but the price puts it out of reach of many "average" book buyers. If it is going to win hearts and minds among the music-loving public, there would have to be a concerted campaign led by conductors, scholars, other performing musicians, etc. It is becoming easier to create those coalitions, but it's not *easy*. (See, for example, the new recording of George Frederick Bristow's Symphony No. 2, which was a collaboration between a scholar and a conductor--the conductor, incidentally, is related to another musicologist.)

The bottom line, I think, is that there are many institutional barriers to advocating for unsung composers in print or in concert halls with the hopes of reaching a wide public. That's not to say that things will always be this way, but it's my impression at present. The original poster in this thread seems to think that there is a magic bullet out there. I'm highly skeptical.

[sdtom]

Mark,as far as Fifield's book I just can't afford it as much as I would like to read it. If it were $50 I might be able to swing it. I tried to get the Minneapolis library system to order  but they didn't. I'm stuck and really have nowhere to turn.
Tom