American Orchestras' Dismal Future

[J Joe Townley]

Stumbled across this interesting article in New Republic:

https://newrepublic.com/article/114221/orchestras-crisis-outreach-ruining-them

I never would have guessed the stalwart Philadelphia Orchestra once helmed by Ormandy would be filing for bankruptcy. They emerged by the skin of their teeth, but I fear this portends a dismal future for classical organizations that manage middle-tier semi-professional orchestras which make up the backbone of American classical music life. More and more are shuttering for lack of financial support. Everything below the "Big Five" might be considered semi-pro or 2nd tier and these orchestras are the ones that are in trouble. Community orchestras affiliated with universities, jr. colleges and other institutions might survive in some form, maybe as chamber orchestras as players demand higher salaries to keep up with the cost of living but the pot to draw on is dry for most of these smaller-city orchestras like the Nashville Symphony (mentioned in the article) which also narrowly avoided closing its doors:

In recent years, the Nashville Symphony has been running deficits of $10 to $20 million a year, and a contract with the musicians is about to expire. If recent history is any guide, negotiations will be complex and rancorous. 

We rely on these institutions (2nd/middle tier) to bring us works by unsung composers we'd never hear otherwise. The Big Five rarely touch them. 95% of their repertoire are the standards with a premiere thrown in every season or so if the donation is generous enough.

Any thoughts on where American orchestras will be 50 years from now?   

[Alan Howe]

I'm afraid I think that orchestras have got to re-think their whole modus operandi - or they'll die. I've no idea what this will mean, but things clearly can't go on as they are...

[sdtom]

The average person looks at the cost of going to one concert and says it's not worth it and watches a movie at home for free. I'd be surprised if most of them make it.

[MartinH]

Ticket prices are expensive - ridiculously so in some cases. I'm not going to spend $120 to hear Dudamel and LA doing Mahler 3, not when there's a superb cd with Bernstein and NY. But ticket sales only cover a portion, maybe less than 50%, of the cost of concerts. The problem is that musician salaries are all out of whack. If people were storming the doors to hear the symphony like they do Justin Bieber those salaries might be justified. But not now. As audiences have been dumbed down a dwindled, the situation is going to get very bleak indeed.

By coincidence, in the past week two orchestras I play with have sent out urgent emails explaining difficult financial situations and begging players to donate one or two services for the next concert (usually each concert takes 4 or 5 services). The pay isn't that great anyway, and no one depends on it for their subsistence, but the fees are a nice exchange for the time given up to practicing, driving to rehearsals and concerts, etc. I doubt that either of them will be in existence for another year. We had a Christmas concert with another semi-pro group on Saturday. In a city of 250,000 only 500 bothered to show up. And it was a very good, well played, joyous concert. But you're right: it's easier to stay home and watch TV. And it was the last night of the National Finals Rodeo from Las Vegas!

[eschiss1]

... Anyone in Cleveland (that wouldn't be me, unfortunately) want to show support for the Cleveland Orchestra's willingness to program a Berwald symphony this coming February, though? (Then there's a concert in Buffalo  in March (& another in June) with an overture and symphonic poem by Novák. I wonder, too, what the American Symphony Orch. is doing this year; Botstein's recording of Fuchs' 3rd symphony was rather better than Mussauer's...)
Ah, according to Bachtrack, this is Botstein's program two days from now (Thursday)--

Krein, The Rose and the Cross, Op.26
Rubinstein, Cello Concerto no. 2 in D minor, op.96
Gnessin, From Shelley, for musical declamation and piano, Op.18
Steinberg, Symphony no.1 in D major, Op.3

Can't disagree with the overall picture drawn of the US orchestral scene, but "do not go gentle" and &c...

[adriano]

Today's worldwide ciritical financial situation of orchestras is due to an oversaturation of repertoire music (in concert and and on CD). Then comes the star cult and the manager's mafia (and their control of artist's fees). Then the CDs and other media: why, for example, should one buy an expensive ticket when he can get excellent audio and vision on a big TV screen at cheaper prize? And this broadcasted from no matter which city in the world? Finally, when all this started, nobody objected against it, so it's our own fault if we enjoy also this alternative.
Frankly, I generally never watch operas on TV, but I often prefer "watching" a concert on TV instead of having to sit in an unconfortable chair amongst a choughing and unconcentrated audience, and so close to unknown people not always sending the best radiance, or smelling bad! That's why I also avoid cinemas and restaurants - unless they offer more space and non-stress ambiance. Or I chose to sit in places situated in extreme corners or rows. To travel in crouded trains and planes is another horror for me.
I am astonished that this oversaturation was not perceived already during the stereo LP era, when big conductors were allowed to record the same pieces more than just once in their career, or labels used to publish the same symphonies done by dozens of different conductors within a few years. It's certainly good that music has been commercialised, but now it's simply too much (because of these diffrerent media). Music, unfortunately, still remains di per sé a very expensive thing to do; a score needs a lot of money before it becomes hearable and appreciable. The exaggeration of producing repertoire music has become a real problem. Professional musicians do a lot of good work, but they have to get paid, no matter if they play Beethoven's Fifth 4 times a month or a Symphony by Raff once in 5 years. They do a really hard work. Concert managers, impresarios should be pilloried - and some of their greedy stars, who should be boycotted!

[kuula]

If the political situation worsens (see Trump, Cruz et al.) you can expect the United States to dry up culturally and disappear.  Reality TV, internet, Fox News, invective and nationalism will produce the inevitable result of a dumbed-downed public and an end to great culture.  Thank God for Britain, Finland, and several smaller states that will try to maintain Western culture for a few more decades.  But do not count on the United States for that.

[Alan Howe]

I wouldn't count on us in the UK. We're already well on the way to an unthinking, dumbed-down, keep'em-entertained-at-all-costs culture here. It's been going on for years.

Recorded music is my refuge - apart from a few summer-season productions at Opera Holland Park, London where my daughter handles the marketing and advertising. Next summer they're putting on Mascagni's Iris - verismo is their speciality, having triumphed with Francesca da Rimini, L'Amore dei tre re and I Gioielli della Madonna. So there is room for adventure: perhaps someone had better ask how they've managed to do what others can't...

[Double-A]

Two things:  Several people complain about the availability of recorded music: they say it keeps people away from the cnoncert halls.  This may be true, but for me at least recorded music is never as deep and engaging an experience as a live performance--for two reasons I think.  First because there is risk taken every time something is performed live.  And second because of the ritual surrounding the performance that makes me (not only me I suspect) more receptive:  One gets dressed up, goes to the concert hall, buys tickets and a program, hands one's coat to the coat lady, looks for the seats, reads the wisdom somebody wrote for the program while waiting for the music to begin, applauds before and after... (not saying there wouldn't be more people without recordings, though maybe some people only have a chance to learn about classical music through recordings and would not enter a concert hall if it weren't for the recordings).
BTW in my experience bad smelling people are rather rare among symphony goers (and I doubt Beethoven smelled nice all the time).

Secondly there are some expressions of cultural pessimism in this thread that seem to me to be over the top.  Reminds me of old folks complaining about today's young.  There have been such complainers in every generation and if they all had been right over the centuries we must be really despicable all of us by now. 

[adriano]

1) By bad smelling people I principally mean those with horribly strong perfumes :-) The ones wearing sweat-smelling synthetic shirts come afterwards...
2) A recording can be as interesting as a concert, if properly recorded and not over-edited. I can confirm this, based on own experiences. That's why I also like live recordings. You can learn a lot from them.
3) Without all the recordings which were already available in the 60s, I would have never learnt so much about music and interpretation. And at that time, Radio was, actually, much more cultural and experimental as far as msuic is concerned (unfortunately no more today). Already in my younger years I was sick and tired of all those same Mozart-Beethoven programs. These composers were also dominating the musical teaching, and imagine the day I came up with playing pieces by Satie and Pulenc - or doing a slideshow on Tchaikovsky, or playing the LP of Charles Ives' Fourth recorded by Stokowski! That's why I refused to continue studying at the (at that time very old-fashioned Zurich) Conservatory. Today, this situation has improved, fortunately.
4) The "live" element of music is certainly the most authentic one, but I dont'really feel in a mood to be continuously faced with similar repertoire programs just because a perverse majority of concert-goers (the ones you help to get back into their coats) wants and pays for it  - refusing to accept more unusual repertoire. Those people attend concerts mostly to show themselves and to feel happy that they are going to hear the tunes they already know. Over here, the average (and richer) subscription concert-goer's age is between 45 and 90. Afterwards the "younger" ones among them go to an expensive restaurant to discuss and compare the pieces they know and have heard again with the recordings they have at home - they would never be in condition to supply more individual and creative judgements. So you can eventually hear: "my recording with Karajan ist still the better one, he always has the right tempi" etc.
Our Tonhalle Orchestra and Opera are also trying (as everywhere in the world) to save their financial situation by gaining new and younger audiences; but these are not rich enough and have not (yet?) the right understanding for musical interptretation or how to "believe" in classical music. In the past I used to lecture younger people, triying to "win" them for the classics: it was a very difficult task... The last time I did this (a couple of years ago), the listeners concentrated mainly on their mobile phones. Lecturing on film music was a bit easier: at least there were images shown together with the music.
5) That is why, as a conductor myself, I would even have a bad conscience mounting the podium for a Mozart or Beethoven Symphony. Anyway, since agents refused to take me because of my different ideas about concert programs, I have agreed to do recordings - but only the projects I wanted. Otherwise, my possible "live" audiences would start comparing me with the stars of their recordings after the piece's first bars - and not enjoy music anew, as it should be really done. And, as a very rare concert-goer myself, that's just why I prefer listening to music at home alone or just with a couple of friends.
Cultural pessimism: this quite adequate, seeing the turn the world is taking since already quite a few years.

[Double-A]

I agree that recordings can be interesting.  And you can learn--I'd argue--more from recordings than from live performances because you can go back and re-listen, confirm or contradict your first impressions etc.

What I mean is this:  Music is interesting certainly, but it is more than interesting.  And of this "more" I get more from a concert than from an electronic device. 

I'd have to add that I have almost stopped going to orchestral concerts as I prefer chamber music, not only because it is friendlier to my limited budget.  And I believe the problem with the ossified repertoire is less acute in chamber music than in the symphony hall.

I'd also speculate that the problem would not exist without recordings which contribute massively to the repetition of always the same music, say in the radio.  If we only had live music there would not be many people who have heard all the pieces in the standard repertoire--it isn't that enormously small either.

[jerfilm]

As frightening as it may seem to some, it may well be the semi-professional orchestras (or whatever you choose to call them) that will keep our music alive.  Since moving from Minnesota to Wisconsin, we're now 3 and 5 hours from a major symphony orchestra.  But, Southwest Wisconsin is not a cultural wasteland.  It's 35 miles to Dubuque, Iowa.   What could possibly be in Dubuque, Iowa?   Well, for starters, they have a very good symphony orchestra.  Two lovely venues - a restored 1910 theater and an 1890 Grand Opera House, also restored!   The Dubuque Youth Symphony where my granddaughter is co-principal flute, is currently being considered as one of the top five youth orchestras, if not in the world, at least the United States.  There's an excellent ballet company and a very active chorale.  No, they don't perform every week, but when they do, they're very good.  And they draw many of their principals from places like UW-Platteville (WI) and colleges and universitys in and around Dubuque.   And while their venues are not large, they do fill them.  And at an affordable price. 

I guess what encourages me is that there are young people who still take an interest in something other than hiphop and rock.   If you've never seen or watched a college christmas concert, go on line and Google St. Olaf Christmas Concert from Northfield, Minnesota, or one from Luther College in Decorah, Iowa.  Neither of these are music schools per se.  Both have HUGE choir programs and both have very talented symphony orchestras.  I'm sure there are many others around the USA.   Perhaps Europe and elsewhere, too.  And they are GOOD.

I ramble.  Sorry.    The plight of the majors is sad and very serious.  We saw it happen in Minneapolis and we have not been in a position to attend a concert there since they re-organized.  We were season ticket holders for 57 years.......

Jerry

[sdtom]

It does get down to being all about money. I recently got from Reference Recordings their latest release for possible review which was nominated for a Grammy. It was a recording of Beethoven's 5th and 7th symphonies both wonderful works but frankly I'm sick of hearing them. This was a live recording featuring the Pittsburgh Symphony so we know what they are offering which is very typical. I've progressed to where I want to listen to other things and with downloads and CD's I can and do.
Tom

[minacciosa]

I am in complete agreement with Hadrianus.

[J Joe Townley]

Many good opinions voiced. Here's my take:

All professional musicians have a right to be compensated adequately for their talent and hard work. Getting a PhD in music is similar to a physician putting in 10 years for an MD, but like music physicians can charge only so much and people stop going to see them. Same with dentists. One dentist quoted me $1500 for a porcelain crown. I simply cannot afford it. An average concert goer cannot afford $50 for a back-row seat at the Disney Hall. To make matters worse there are so many live performances of all the major works on YouTube (some multiple--Bernstein and von Karajan for Tchaikovsky 5th for example) that most people can blow it up on their big screen and listen in HDef for free. Quite simply, we just don't need big concert halls anymore with media technology.

Another problem: it's the same repertoire over and over with an occasional post-modern extremely dissonant premiere thrown in and tepid applause afterwards, almost vanity premieres. Only the rich bigwigs and friends of the composer and high-society types turn out for these.

Not meaning to derail, but I was reading about Colburn School downton LA. They are privately endowed by somebody(ies) with deep pockets. They don't charge a dime for their classes. All free. They are going after the best teachers they can get their hands on. Symphony orchestras are gong to need private endowments to stay afloat. The money will never come from ticket sales or small donations. Failing that, I see orchestras falling one by one with only a few surviving and even then eventually they will fail to as training in music begins a serious decline. In the end all classical music entertainment will come from media sources like YouTube, deMedici, Arhaus, and other distributors. Lang Lang will give more recitals and orchestras will cut back until they are chamber ensembles.

A pro musician in the LA Phil makes about 100K and then they give private lessons on top of that and maybe teach PT at university. They make a darn good living, but when the orchestras begin to fail their standard of living will fall too. I read in the article that the Philadelphia came out of bankruptcy only because they players were willing to take a 10% cut in pay, I think it was. That will become the norm for dealing with this crisis: pay cuts or go out of business.

Serious times for musicians. Something to think about whether to go into music as a career, especially as an avant-garde composer.

The days of live performances of Mahler's Symphony of a Thousand are gone forever. Maybe "Symphony of a Hundred".