American Orchestras' Dismal Future

[eschiss1]

Well, maybe I should have put more effort toward going to the UK and specifically London a few years ago for the Gothic after all (yes, not USA, but as others said, the world seems to enjoy(!) following in the USA's footsteps (where are we going and why are we in this handbasket), just more slowly...)

[MartinH]

Kuula: why did you have to bring politics into this? And then make the mistake of blaming conservatives? And what does Fox News have to do with the demise of western culture? As a conservative myself, I find it quite humorous and somewhat irritating that the arts crowd, which is largely liberal, always has their hand out for money to keep their projects going. And who do they hit up? Conservatives! That's where they money is, they think. And yes, many conservatives DO support the arts - and churches, hospitals, veterans, etc.

But maybe you were referring to public funding of arts? Yes, in the US the attitude among a lot of conservatives is that these should be privately funded - it's been that way for a long time. There are some towns that do support municipal orchestras and bands. Not remotely like Germany does. Most cities build concert halls for the performing arts as well as sports arenas. You might also be surprised at the large number of school/university orchestras funded by the taxpayers.

But I still don't see what Fox News has to do with any of this. From my point of view, the liberal media has done more to ruin western civ than one single network. We have many liberal "news" outlets. Only one conservative.

[Alan Howe]

Let's leave politics out of this, please.

[Delicious Manager]

As someone who has been a professional manager of orchestras and artists in the UK for more than 30 years, I have observed the trends here with some despair. Firstly, though, one needs to remember that the orchestral scene in the USA is, to my knowledge, unique in the world inasmuch as orchestras rely on private sponsorship and donations to boost their concert income for more than anywhere else in the world. As society has become dumbed down and first-class music become available to just about everyone through recorded media and the internet, the effort of hauling oneself out of the house, travelling to a venue and then getting oneself back home again afterwards can seem too much for many. I have seen the age-old accusation here of tickets being too expensive for concerts, but people are very happy to pay far more to watch football (and 'soccer'), baseball, rugby and cricket matches, just as they will pay massive prices for rock and pop concerts. Going to a classical concert does NOT need to be expensive - even the opera (where here one can get very cheap 'standby' tickets for nearly every performance).

High culture has always needed subsidy; in times gone by it was royal courts and monied aristocrats who 'owned' artists and their music. Current-day USA is still very close to this. In Europe, state subsidy is prevalent (to a greater [eg Germany] or lesser [eg the UK] extent). Culture is what defines us as a society and civilisation; we have to invest in it if we want these traditions to continue. Without it, what would we become?

I saw a post that suggested that musicians' fees are "out of whack". Out of whack with what, exactly? Musicians spend years and years studying, investing in expensive sheet music, VERY expensive instruments, lessons and, even when a professional, HOURS of practice. Their study and skills compare to other professionals like doctors, dentists and (dare I say) plumbers, all of whom earn far more than their musician counterparts. I have yet to fathom the mindset that thinks that musicians shouldn't be paid a fare wage commensurate with the skills they have honed and the pleasure they give (which is somewhat more than that derived from the average visit to the physician's surgery or the dentist's chair). Maybe someone can explain that to me.

The malaise described in this thread is largely a disease of the English-speaking world. Go to France, Germany, Italy and the 'arts' in general receive far more subsidy, sell more tickets to a greater cross-section of society (you see FAMILIES going to concerts together) and engender a pride among the general population almost unheard of in English-speaking countries (even if they don't attend the events themselves).

Until we as a society wake up and truly value and invest in our cultures, we could very well lose them forever.

[jerfilm]

Sadly, Alan, in the United States, public funding of the arts, virtually ANY arts, is a serious political issue.  In general, one party favors generous funding of the arts and the other would stop all subsidies to organizations like the National Endowment for the Arts, public broadcasting and telecasting and so forth.   I won't get in to politics, but when I lived in Minnesota and was Chair of our Regional Arts Council, we went to St. Paul to lobby for funding and I saw this firsthand.  It was so black and white, at least at that time (80s) that it made me re-examine who I was politically.   Minnesota has been a generous funder of local arts, artists, performer, etc.
Unfortunately not many states can make that claim.

Jerry

[Double-A]

I saw a post that suggested that musicians' fees are "out of whack". Out of whack with what, exactly? Musicians spend years and years studying, investing in expensive sheet music, VERY expensive instruments, lessons and, even when a professional, HOURS of practice. Their study and skills compare to other professionals like doctors, dentists and (dare I say) plumbers, all of whom earn far more than their musician counterparts.

A few comments on that;

- I believe the poster you respond to had in mind the inequality (to use the term presently en vogue) inside the profession:  If you have  job at the San Francisco Symphony (which depends as much on luck as on skill) you are fine.  You have even a union that will organize a strike and get you a raise.  The rest of musicians have meager pay indeed.

- As to your comparison to physicians etc. you might be a tad off.  It takes more effort and a larger chunk of your life time to get a medical degree or a Ph.D. in science than to acquire the skills of a competent orchestra musician.  Trust me on this.  Also physicians in particular work many more hours than musicians in a symphony, personal practice included (that we would be better off with more, lower paid and less overworked doctors is a different topic...).  Orchestra musicians can easily have half a dozen students at the same time (and it is highly desirable that they do indeed teach).

On another note:  I believe you see the situation in the non-Anglosaxon part of Europe a bit too rosy--unfortunately:  The subsidies are under fire politically, mostly, but not only from the left (because "elitist").  Private sponsors are becoming more and more prominent with all the negative side effects like focus on big stars and standard repertoire--the stuff that the Grand Bourgeois thinks is "culture".

[Delicious Manager]

Just to respond to your points:

I believe the poster you respond to had in mind the inequality (to use the term presently en vogue) inside the profession:  If you have  job at the San Francisco Symphony (which depends as much on luck as on skill) you are fine.  You have even a union that will organize a strike and get you a raise.  The rest of musicians have meager pay indeed.

As to your comparison to physicians etc. you might be a tad off.  It takes more effort and a larger chunk of your life time to get a medical degree or a Ph.D. in science than to acquire the skills of a competent orchestra musician.  Trust me on this.  Also physicians in particular work many more hours than musicians in a symphony, personal practice included (that we would be better off with more, lower paid and less overworked doctors is a different topic...).  Orchestra musicians can easily have half a dozen students at the same time (and it is highly desirable that they do indeed teach).

Orchestral musicians in the USA have far more comfortable existences than those in the UK (where I am), both in terms of working conditions and pay. Freelancers (of which the UK probably has more per capita than anywhere in the world) can indeed earn very little or very much, depending on lots of factors.
Have a look at the schedule of one of the 'freelance' London orchestras (LSO, LPO, RPO, Philharmonia) and tell me they work less than some of those you mention.

Trust me on this.

You trust ME on this; I've been working in this environment for 35 years (and studied in it for 5 years before that).

On another note:  I believe you see the situation in the non-Anglosaxon part of Europe a bit too rosy--unfortunately:  The subsidies are under fire politically, mostly, but not only from the left (because "elitist").  Private sponsors are becoming more and more prominent with all the negative side effects like focus on big stars and standard repertoire--the stuff that the Grand Bourgeois thinks is "culture".

I'm fully aware of the cuts in countries like Germany, the Netherlands and Spain. They're still a lot better off than most comparable organisations in the UK.

[adriano]

An example from the "new look" efforts of the Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra (new chef: Lionel Bringuier):
This season's "Creative Chair" was focused on Esa Pekka-Salonen.
In 9 different concerts, works (orchestra, choral or chamber) by Salonen as a composer were performed or premiered, either conducted by himself or by others. In some concerts Salonen conducted Symphonies, tone poems or the Violin Concerto by Sibelius, in another a Symphony by Brahms, or works by Prokofiev and Berlioz - but always coupled with a work of his own.
Of course, Salonen is a good friend of our chief conductor Lionel Bringuier (who was Salonen's former assistant at the LAPO) and the orchestra manageress.
Bringuier is also allowed to conduct works by Salonen elsewhere (Paris Opera etc.).
I hink this is too one-sided - and "in-sided" in view of a "public service" task orchestras also should respect. In a way they almost desperately try to get away from traditionalistic programs, but this example is also no good solution. I heard that many subscriptions were not renewed.
So, will this bring in more money??
Season's 2015-16 "Creative Chair" will be dedicated to German composer Jörg Widmann.

[kolaboy]

Yes, no politics. I come here to escape that rubbish.

[sdtom]

I know that different orchestras have different salaries in the US for musicians. I can also tell you that the US is obsessed with the National Football League. If a couple goes one can easily spend a $1000 or more for one game. Even the symphony now has seats for $200.00 and good luck on getting the standby tickets. Twice this year I've been turned away and even that is expensive as I've had to pay $20 for parking.

[Alan Howe]

As has been suggested earlier, people will pay top dollar for sport or pop (low culture), but not for classical music (high culture). Why should we be surprised? Low culture is popular; high culture isn't. Low culture attracts the masses, high culture a certain elite.

Classical music has long relied upon wealthy patrons on the one hand or the long arm of the state on the other. By their very nature, the former come and go over time; and the latter are subject to the whims of electorates and the swings of the economy. 

In my school days forty-five years ago - at a very good grammar school (selective and high-achieving) - the assumption was that young men needed to be introduced to high culture (literature, art, music, etc.) by those who were themselves steeped in it because it represented the highest achievements of the human spirit (as did science, by the way) and because we would become better, more rounded people as a result. Nowadays, however, education has become thoroughly utilitarian in outlook. The principle is no longer 'this is good for the soul', but 'this is good for your job prospects'. Accordingly, everything has to be constantly measured and tested; but how do you measure being exposed to the final part of act 3 of Die Walküre (Solti) by the head of music in the school music room? No doubt the music students would analyse and explain the technicalities. But I was no music student; my abilities lay elsewhere. Yet that exposure did something for me which goes beyond measuring and testing...

I suspect that this is a battle which will never be won and will lurch from one crisis to the next - unless sympathetic patrons or governments decide to splash the cash. In the end, that's what it comes down to.

[Gareth Vaughan]

It is the dumbing down of Western culture. Today people know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Like you, Alan, when I was at school we were given a rounded education and nobody asked what the use of a particular subject might be. It was studied for its own sake (I am very glad I was given the chance to learn Latin and classical Greek, as these subjects are hardly taught at all now, I believe - the Classics tutor at my old college in Oxford tells me they now have to run crash courses in basic Latin and Greek in the first year for those studying "Greats" because the standard is so poor at A level.) Our music master used to run trips to the Welsh National Opera in Cardiff - a minibus, driven by the Classics master - they were always oversubscribed! Sic transit gloria mundi. It is all very depressing.

[minacciosa]

When speaking with audiences and students I often juxtapose the training for careers in medicine and classical music. Indeed, the learning curve to become a professional classical musician is far longer than it is to become a medical doctor. Further, one absolutely must begin studies in youth, as the training is physical as well as intellectual. Without such an early start, achieving the minimal level required for professional performance is virtually hopeless. I could quit now and become a doctor in ten years; if I were a doctor it would be impossible to quit and become a fully professional classical musician in the same amount of time. Really, there isn't a comparison; that is not denigrating medical skills and training at all, but merely a recognition of the difference in the time needed to manifest skills requisite for minimal achievement. Unfortunately societies tend to support that which they feel is valuable; the perceived value of classical music has precipitously declined (at least in America), not coincidentally as the general requirements for a basic education have fallen to all-time lows.

The general public has absolutely no idea what it takes to practice this discipline. It doesn't help that when we get good at, it we make it look easy.

[sdtom]

I think I do understand. You devote your life to it.

[minacciosa]

It's not that one devotes a life to it; it simply takes much, much longer to learn, and in order to become sufficiently professional, it becomes not a job, but a lifestyle.