Another Elgar 'Symphony'?

[mbhaub]

I'm not too thrilled about orchestrations of masterfully done work. Look at the travesty of the Rachmaninoff 5th concerto, for example. On the other hand, one of my favorite listens is Schoenberg's dazzling version of the Brahms G minor Quartet. So maybe this echt-Elgar will be ok. I wish it hadn't been attached to Sea Pictures, though. After Baker/Barbirolli why bother?

[Alan Howe]

Because it too is an arrangement.

[Gareth Vaughan]

How horrible. 
Almost as horrible as Rachmaninoff''s "5th Piano Concerto", I should think.

[Alan Howe]

Well, the Rachmaninov was a re-composition as well as an arrangement, wasn't it? That's not true of the Elgar CD (which I'm not defending - just pointing out the differences).

[FBerwald]

... as long as it's NOT the Elgar Piano Concerto....

[Gareth Vaughan]

I take your point, Alan. But "I hae ma doots..."

[Jimfin]

I think the Jacob orchestration of the Organ Sonata is magnificent, and I find it more plausible than other orchestrations, since it is known that Elgar wanted to write a symphony at this time, so it gives us some idea what one might have sounded like, especially as it is such a long and expansive work for an Organ Sonata.

Of course, if one wishes to count Elgar symphonies, there's the Symphony in G Minor after Mozart, which he wrote when very young as an exercise. Only part of it survives, admittedly, and I've never heard any.

[Ilja]

Hm, I quite like the piano concerto. How much of it is Elgar is another matter.

[mbhaub]

An arrangement of Sea Pictures? I didn't catch that on looking at the JPC site. Didn't cross my mind. I didn't think it needed to be re-orchestrated. Anyone who wants to take on Elgar as an orchestrator has got some real chutzpah.

[Alan Howe]

I think it might be a choral/orchestral version.

[Ilja]

What "needs to" or "doesn't need to" be re-orchestrated or "re-imagined" is hardly the point, I think. Re-shaping other people's works into a different form is an activity with a tradition that goes back centuries, in all the arts. Sometimes, it is just an exercise, part of an attempt to master the craft. But in its best form, it can be an art onto itself. It is hardly ever "necessary", probably, in any objective sense, but it is part of what makes the "classical" music landscape so interesting. So even if I shall hear the adaptation only once, I'm always grateful for having had opportunity to do so.

[Mark Thomas]

I don't have any entrenched view one way or the other, and the bottom line is that no one is compelled to buy this CD. Ilja is correct of course, there is a very long tradition of arranging other composers' work; if you browse Hofmeister XIX then you'll see that many of the scores published each month in the 19th century were arrangements. That said, for me it all comes down to whether they work musically, and some certainly do: mention has already been made of Jacob's orchestration of Elgar's Organ Sonata and Schoenberg's of Brahm's Piano Quartet. I'll add a third nominee: Szell's orchestration of Smetana's From My Life String Quartet. I'll hazard a guess, though, that the failures outweigh the successes.

[Alan Howe]

Three great examples, Mark. I'm just hoping for something to excite the jaded palate...

[Ebubu]

...that the failures outweigh the successes

I just heard some orchestrations of Debussy's works (Orch Works, Vol 6, by Jun Märkl, on Naxos).  Some of them (Suite Bergamasque) are pretty appaling....  Orchestration 101 level (if that much)...
I' ve heard that John Adams had orchestrated some Debussy songs (5 Poemes de Baudelaire).  THAT should be something else !

[semloh]

I wonder what members think of 'un-orchestrations'- those works that are originally for orchestra but are arranged for small ensembles or solo instruments? I rather like Elgar's short orchestral works arranged for violin & piano, or piano solo, for  example.