Overblown great music?

[Alan Howe]

Just watching Mahler 7 on TV with the BPO under Rattle at the Proms. Oh dear, perhaps my regard for Mahler is wearing off, but I found it overlong, discursive and, frankly, exhausting (in a bad way) to listen to. The announcer described it as 'over the top' - for me it was way beyond that.

So, have we been taken for a ride with Mahler? Or is there just too much of his music around these days? And why aren't we hearing his great contemporaries, e.g. Wilhelm Berger?

[kolaboy]

The seventh has always been the one symphony of his that has refused to stick with me. Not that it's bad by any stretch (no pun intended), but it seems paradoxically to be too little / too long.  If that makes any sense at all

[Mark Thomas]

I must confess that I have never felt much love for Mahler beyond the first four symphonies. I don't think it's the giganticism, because the Third is the most expansive of the lot, isn't it? No, it's the decline in passages of heartfelt, romantic lyricism and quirky, unpredictable playfulness and their replacement by what always seems to me to be hysteria and self-pity. It's the latter characteristics which I think appeal in the age we live in, but for me Mahler never bettered the finale of the Resurrection Symphony, and it was all downhill after that. Heresy, I know, but I never claimed to be "on trend".

[Alan Howe]

I think I may have reached the point when Mahler's giganticism has begun to pall. I began my trek through Mahler many years ago with Symphony No.1 (one of Kubelik's recordings, I forget which) and find myself returning to its freshness with some relief these days. Years of over-exposure may well be part of the problem for me, but I do increasingly wonder whether the trek itself has been worth it. These days I find myself favouring (a) something rather more concise and (b) something which suggests rather than batters me over the head...

[TerraEpon]

My favorite Mahler -- and the only one I even have a recording of -- is the first symphony.

I *love* over the top music, in fact I probably enjoy Khachaturian's 3rd more than almost anyone (I know, not in the 'remit' but it's the first thing that comes to mind).

Take that as you will.

[sdtom]

I too like the first. To me this is his greatest symphony.

[eschiss1]

For what little it's worth, I go especially for the fourth, sixth and ninth, and do hear the caprice there that you don't, especially in a movement like the scherzoish movements of the sixth and fourth (I might have given up on Mahler immediately if I hadn't happened on the fourth soon after hearing the fifth perhaps woodenly performed at Tanglewood back in 1987. I've since come to love most all of his works, certainly including his songs, but the first and eighth symphonies not nearly so much as other music.)

[MartinH]

It was the 7th that hooked me on Mahler - the Bernstein NYPO recording from 50 years ago. It took a few years but eventually became quite an addict of Mahler. I spent a small fortune on LPs then CDs, going to concerts. To me, Mahler could do no wrong. The only symphony that I didn't really love was the 8th. But as I got older, more experienced, and listened to a LOT more music, my interest and the thrill has waned to be sure. Maybe it is overexposure, but that doesn't explain it all. There was a time when the local pro orchestra did Mahler and they would sell out three concerts. No more. At one point it was a real rare experience to hear Mahler live, but that's no longer the case.

There's also the problem that some conductors keep doing the same repertoire - Rattle! He's been doing Mahler since he was in LA. Give it a rest! Take up something else. Do some Elgar, Schmidt, Atterberg. He's done enough Mahler. His 7th was no great shakes in LA, his Birmingham recording was nothing special, either.

When I was in college one professor who was aware of my obsession with Mahler said that the only thing he had against Mahler was that he didn't have an eraser: he didn't know when to stop. I didn't understand what he meant then - I do now. There are moments in every symphony that I think are too long, too overblown. Oddly, Mahler is still one of the few composers I will travel extensively to hear performed live, but the "Mahler effect" is definitely wearing off. But I will be in Amsterdam, 2020.

[eschiss1]

I usually associate Rattle with the CBSO in the UK but I see he's no longer there. I like their program this year though (this "covereth a multitude of sins" - though I wouldn't be able to go...)

[matesic]

The one Mahler symphony that remains completely fresh for me is...the seventh. The reason is that it doesn't "stick" like all the rest - neither in the memory, nor in the gullet. Insanely episodic, chaotic even, I'm inclined to believe he was parodying himself. Just occasionally I wonder if he couldn't stop being "Mahlerian" for a few bars, but I believe that's part of his conceit. The cowbells, guitar and mandolin sound completely incongruous, but what the hell? No big chorale tunes intended to reach the heavens, no "poor me" hammerblows, just a celebration of teeming abundance. From another perspective one might suspect he was finding a use for all the scraps of rejected manuscript he found on the floor of his summerhouse, but I prefer to believe this to be a uniquely inventive creation. And although I've never been a great Rattle fan, his performances are often the ones that convince me the most, including last night's!

[Alan Howe]

Oh, I have no problem with Rattle in Mahler, although I too wish he'd try doing something else. I'm just tired of the composer's ubiquity. He badly needs rationing, not further exposure.

[giles.enders]

I have always thought of Mahler as 'a sung' composer. At least that has been the case for the past 50 years.  What makes him 'great' in many people's eyes is his unique sound.  I love Song of the Earth.  Now back to the unsung please.

[eschiss1]

I'd mention Rattle's advocacy of Szymanowski and Suk, but they're sung and outside the increasingly narrow scope of this forum; and this thread isn't about Rattle - or about Mahler...- so...

[Gareth Vaughan]

I think it fair to say that Marx's Herbst Symphonie is both great and overblown. Others that come to mind are Klenau and Hausegger, but one might argue over whether the former's 9th symphony or the latter's Naturesymphonie deserve the adjective "great". I find some of Havergal Brian overblown, but I think he was a great composer nonetheless.

[Double-A]

After reading this whole thread I have to admit I don't know the meaning of "overblown" any more.  Who is doing the blowing and what is getting blown over? 

I do think that a debate on sung music which is "overblown" and thus ripe for demotion to "unsung" (if this is the meaning of it) is the mirror image of most discussions on this forum and as such perfectly fit to be here.