Hans Rott - novel

[Paul Barasi]

Anyone who knows the ending of Mahler 1 who wants to actually hear Rott's Suite in E is welcome to email me for the MP3s of the OOP recording: pbarasi54@btinternet.com - although it will cost you 13MB + ideally also getting it on this site's downloads if, unlike me, you are savvy enough to do that.

[Alan Howe]

Gentlemen: I have removed the confusing multiplicity of Mediafire links for obvious reasons:

1. Links to downloads are not to be posted on this board.
2. There was no indication as to the source of the downloads anyway. Please remember that such links are only to be posted in the Downloads board, together with details of the source, performers, etc, and are held there until the moderators OK them.

Thanks.

[matesic]

OK, but I assume a youtube link is OK here?

https://youtu.be/8kyxhAcNHBM

[Alan Howe]

Yes, of course. Thank you!

[ncouton]

Listening right now to Rott"s Symphony, I would find more natural, or more fair, to compare, in fine, this symphony written in 1878-80 with Mahler's Klagende Lied (written in 1879-80).

[Alan Howe]

And what would you conclude from this comparison, M. Couton?

[ncouton]

That Mahler already found, and completely, his style and manners while Rott was still looking for his own way between Bruckner and Brahms... 

[Alan Howe]

Thanks. Do you believe that Mahler ever took anything from Rott's music?

[ncouton]

Yes but superficially, like quotes or homages as I wrote earlier in this topic. 

[Alan Howe]

This is what Paul Barasi wrote in reply 31:

On the Music, Mahler deliberately quoted from Rott and did so more than from any other composer and he continued to do so throughout the Mahler symphonic cycle. Yes, Mahler 2 does make significant play of Rott, around the resurrection theme but most interesting is Mahler's 1st. For this is the only one in which Mahler draws from a second Rott work, the Suite in E, which builds in the finale and rounds off the symphony with the standing bell horns chorale.

Would you agree, M.Couton?

[sdtom]

I agree that he stole from it

[eschiss1]

which implies intent and several other things besides.

(And what was the expression sometimes attributed to Picasso or to Stravinsky? (Something?...) borrows, genius (not a genius- genius, the noun) steals? Which I anyway've taken to mean that both owe to the past (generally and specifically, to times and to people, to people and to pieces, to pieces and to specific things in them...)- of course!!... - but the former's owings tend to stick out and be more noticeable because less assimilated; the latter has absorbed them into their way of doing things, has become master of them, makes use of them- and made them part of their stack of tools, their own, "stolen" them truly. Do you notice the Rott quotes as quotes of _something_ even if you do not know them as quotes of Rott, the way I anyway sometimes notice that (famous film composer's name omitted for space reasons) seems to be glancing at -something- on those occasions when I don't know what his inspirational source is (e.g.)?...)

[jimsemadeni]

Besides all which, they are both wonderful listening experiences.

[matesic]

No, I certainly don't notice Mahler's Rott quotations as being of "something", which I guess according to Eric's theory means it was Mahler's genius stealing rather his talent simply imitating. Their perfect assimilation also makes it impossible to regard them as homages of the conventional sort, prompting us to think "Ah, that's from Rott - what a tragedy!". But then again, now we're familiar with their sources their sheer obviousness at several points throughout Mahler's symphony cycle suggests a conscious act of quotation rather than merely a manifestation of his multi-filched toolbox. It's a mystery.

[HugoMiller]

I don't know if others read the 'comments' section below the Youtube recording of the Rott symphony?; (posted by Stephen Jablonsky2 years ago)
"You can understand why Brahms hated the piece. It is just like Bruckner, only better. The fact that something so modern and powerful was written by a kid of 22 must have added to the ire. Listening to the piece is like discovering the store where Mahler bought his ideas. He took as much as he could carry and took them home and recooked them. Rott was dead four years when Mahler started his First Symphony but the seeds had been planted."

When you consider that all music is made up of scales and arpeggios, it is inevitable that the same ideas will surface independently from time to time. But the Rott / Mahler 5 comparison sounds very derivative. Perhaps Mahler was simply saying "This is how I think Rott should have done it"?