Awful, but magnificent!

[edurban]

Are we speaking of William Henry Fry, no extra "e"?  The material seems to me entirely appropriate to a piece about Santa Claus.  Now the sections of the 'Christmas Symphony' that were reused in Fry's opera Notre Dame of Paris may or may not be worthy of Victor Hugo.  (Personally I think they are...)

David

[Paul Barasi]

I've got Fry's Santa Claus Symphony and would never imagine he'd ever feature as Composer of the Weak!

[kolaboy]

OK guys, it isn't April 1st according to my calendar. And yes, Fry WITHOUT the "e".

[Alkanator]

Interesting how vastly different opinions can be. I found an amazon review of a CD of Knipper's 4th paired with Gliere's "The Red Poppy." The sole reviewer gave it 5 stars and stated "Knipper is one of the best composers of the Stalin time."
Interesting...

[Ilja]

I've got Fry's Santa Claus Symphony and would never imagine he'd ever feature as Composer of the Weak!

Fry's a hugely interesting and original composer - if you think Santa Claus is odd, try the Niagara Symphony. Let's not forget that he was something of a pioneer with a very limited musical education.

To me, 'awful magnificence' is best in a work that combines pretentiousness with the Peter principle - biting off more than one can chew. A good candidate would also be Peter Benoit's 'Scheldt River oratorio': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1biA0u-WVw8. Benoit's written some wonderful pieces, but this is a wonderful example of a composition perenially threatening to cave under its own weight.

At the risk of being excommunicated, I would say that Mahler's Eighth goes off some way in that direction, too.

[Alan Howe]

At the risk of being excommunicated, I would say that Mahler's Eighth goes off some way in that direction, too.

Sharp intake of breath! Consider yourself duly disciplined for such heresy...

[kolaboy]

Sorry guys, but Fry (minus the E) wins the cupcake. Anyone who has the audacity to have Santa Claus more or less interacting with Angels in a serious composition, has... ummm... considerable doctrinal issues, to say the least. Not to say that I don't like the piece as a bit of harmless kitsch, but when I read "awful/magnificent" Fry (minus the E) and his very Franklin Pierce-ish mug popped into my head. I'd love to hear one of his stage works - as long as there are no dramatic scenes between Savonarola, and Huckleberry Hound...

Mahler's 8th? Carmen Miranda!

[eschiss1]

erm, which one of these four does not fit? Santa Claus, Angels, Savoranola, and Huckleberry Hound? The last, which has nothing to do with a particular (group of) religion(s)... (well, the third was never to my knowledge raised as a saint- not that this would wholly surprise me, but not to my knowledge, anyway.)

(Santa Claus at least can be related to Saint Nicholas... yes, I know about the pagan origins of the tradition- as I am not in any way religious, that was not my concern. Even though I suspect (and should check...) that Fry's treatment was of both the giver of gifts and the messengers, I mean angels, was more saccharine (before the fact of saccharine- sugared, then) than their roots might allow. (For a treatment of an angel in music, give me Suk's Asrael any time...)

[Paul Barasi]

I'm not entirely convinced that Fry actually set out to compose a 'doctrinal' work but to pull off a bit of Christmas fun. (How does Mahler 2 score on heresy with its no sinners–no judgement message?) [What are we going to do next: Awful but Magnificat?]

[eschiss1]

Oh, I expect you're quite right. I worry a little at too readily taken freedom with conceptual networks that even in generality (leaving out the cartoon details- and I am a cartoon fan) are (still) probably relatively recent in some ways. (Let's see- Fry was composing 1813-64...)  Dickens' A Christmas Carol / Cricket on the Hearth and other Christmas stories and their worlds might be a better partial reference-point - I haven't read them yet unfortunately (or not in awhile?), though I plan to soon.

Hee! (... too suite, simply.)

[JollyRoger]

Try Havergil Brian's Symphony no 4 ."Das Siegeslied". Pretentious,lengthy, grandiose, banal, bombastic but marvelous to some..
The same applies to The convoluted and epic Gothic, No. 1 but to a lesser degree..
And please forgive me...I like Mahler, but please - Mahler 8 Symphony of 1000...400-500 is about all the pain I can bear.

[kolaboy]

erm, which one of these four does not fit? Santa Claus, Angels, Savoranola, and Huckleberry Hound? The last, which has nothing to do with a particular (group of) religion(s)... (well, the third was never to my knowledge raised as a saint- not that this would wholly surprise me, but not to my knowledge, anyway.)

(Santa Claus at least can be related to Saint Nicholas... yes, I know about the pagan origins of the tradition- as I am not in any way religious, that was not my concern. Even though I suspect (and should check...) that Fry's treatment was of both the giver of gifts and the messengers, I mean angels, was more saccharine (before the fact of saccharine- sugared, then) than their roots might allow. (For a treatment of an angel in music, give me Suk's Asrael any time...)

There is a very active Huckleberry Hound cult on the western coast of Baffin Island, hence my reference to the cobalt canine. As for Savonarola... well, sainthood is - to this Protestant - in the aye of the beholder. Aye? But I digress...

The Niagra Symphony (again by Fry - minus the E) somehow meanders between awful/magnificent without particularly achieving either. Rather like one of those jerry-built pieces by Czerny for eighty four pianos and orchestra that looks very unreasonable on paper, but is something you'd love to tell your grandchildren that you had sat through.
All that said, you've got to admire the man's audacity. I suppose if he were living today he's be writing descriptive symphonies concerning the ice volcanism on Triton.

[eschiss1]

interesting. rather like those cargo cults and such, though those at least make sense to me. (any sufficiently simple magic will seem like technology, and all that.)

JollyRoger- re Das Siegeslied- heard you and disagreed with you the first time you mentioned it (and the second time also ), but this forum isn't the place to discuss it. (Likewise the Gothic.)

[JollyRoger]

sorry to pete and repeat...old age is catching up with me!!

[eschiss1]

Oh, I sympathize (and though I find the works of his late years remarkably diverse, and though I did not know him, I expect perhaps so would have the composer, too.)
There's a trivia thread for one, at that : oldest-known (verified, at least general age, not exact) Romantic-era (not style... era)-or-earlier - flourishing period 1915-ish-or-before... composers) which might  -- well... or might not -- make an interesting separate thread... (later on one has several centenarians, e.g. Carter, Ornstein - at least. But earlier? Hrm.)