Polish 19th Century lost Piano Concertos & Symphonies

[Artur Slotwinski]

Dear friends

A bunch of news hear. First I'd like to thank that I am note alone in my mission and search for scores of Polish Piano Concerti and Symphonies as well. I e-mailed Staatsbibliothek Berlin for a pdf copy of Antoni Kątski Symphony in A-major and they replied with an info that it would be a  cost of 90 euro. If it was 90 polish zloty: fine, but 90 euro is 360 polish zloty - for that you can buy Blu ray player of very good shape. i proposed them 20 euro which is 80 zloty - for that you can buy a score by Schott or another publishing house. They have very high prices, perhaps it is because of taxes... Perhaps somone is from Berlin and could xerox it for lower price - I can refund 20 euro for that person.

Another discovery is Adagio and Allegro Concertans by Franciszek Mirecki (that guy famous of Symphony in c-minor). It seems to be kind of Concertante work, scored for piano and strings. I found that score in Aarhus Denmark. Unfortunately they seem to be very official and buraeucratic if may say so. The "commander in chief" librarian replied that they cannot make a photocopy for me because I am private person. They can do it only if National Library of Poland will request that, because they don't make xeros for foreigners. For goodness sake - we are EU, we are not foreigners, Poland is a member of the whole European family - I belive in that despite the dangerous times. The same request here - is there a Dannish citizen among us? As a Pole I can refund circa 20 euro for that person who will xero it for me from Aarhus library. Here is the address: DET KGL. BIBLIOTEK / ROYAL DANISH LIBRARY - Aarhus
VICTOR ALBECKS VEJ 1
8000 AARHUS C
DENMARK

and Kątski Symphony A-major in Berlin: http://staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/ (Symphony does not appear in web search but it is there, the librarian confirmed that they have it in archive)

Looking forward to another news on Polish forgotten or lost Piano Concertos or Symphonies. I would sell my kidney for Władysław Żeleński Symphonies from which we have only Trauerklange (an Adagio movement from 1st or 2nd Symphony, I don't remember). I made midi realization few years ago - promissing music, really making an impression how would sound other movements. How sounds In Tatra Mountains Overture I know and it's gorgeus, proficient and valuable in artistic terms, work of gifted composer.

All the best for You, Dear Friends,

Artur

[Gareth Vaughan]

Some libraries are charging a lot of money nowadays to copy scores. At the British Library it used to be very cheap. Now they have a stupid system whereby it costs £30 (or thereabouts) to copy up to 100 pages from a single score. Sounds all right BUT you can't do more than one score for the £30. So if you have 2 scores of e.g. 20 pages each that will cost you £60. And if it is a short piano piece of only 6-7 pages it is still £30 and if the score is 101 pages long you must pay £30 for the first 100 and another £30 for the one extra page. This is crazy.

Your Danish Library seems unnecessarily hostile too. But let me tell you about the Municipal Library in Prague. They cannot scan a score for me; only photocopy it. And if they photocopy it they will not send it - so I can only get it if I physically take myself to Prague. Some Italian libraries I dealt with about 10 years ago were very inexpensive and very helpful, so long as they were paid by money transfer in advance: then the work got done well and was sent quickly.

With some libraries you would think they didn't want people to do any research. Just sit on their collections and not let anyone else see them. I don't understand it.

[eschiss1]

Re Antoine Kontski/Katski, I'm reminded that his Op.90 is "Scherzo pour piano tiré de la 2me Symphonie. (en Si)." published by Bernard Latte in 1845... the description of the Sinfonie fantastique at Berlin suggests that even if "en Si" refers only to the B major of the Scherzo itself, not to the symphony it's extracted from, there seems to be no corresponding movement in the Kontski Sinfonie fantastique (assuming all its movements are represented there- maybe not?), so here's another work to look for (the full 2nd symphony, that is, if it's anywhere anymore.)

[Artur Slotwinski]

Re: Kątski Symphony

I am in contact with the library in Berlin. They have it: Symphonie fantastique by Kątski, it is 84 pages manuscript(!)-according to the info it's an orchestral score or just parts, but from parts a score can be created in Finale.... I am now negotiating reasonable priced copy. I asked them to make xero and send it by trad. mail. Maybe it will be cheaper than scanning...I don't know. They offered free xero after negotiations so I will pay only for post. Stay tuned...

[Ilja]

Arthur, I'd be happy to order the Danish score on behalf of our institute. Please e-mail me privately at iljajj@outlook.com.

[markniew]

Years ago I went through different dictionaries of music and found mentions about the following piano concertos by Polish composers:

Antoni Stolpe - in F (ca. 1869)
Ignacy Krzyżanowski,
Michał Bergson - C-to Symphonique i B flat minor op. 39
Emil Śmietański - in F shrp minor op. 25, Konzertstuck in d minor
Henryk Bobiński - no. 1 in E minor op. 8 (1900), no. 2 in A minor op. 15
Emanuel Kania
Juliusz Zarębski - in fact there are doubts it was really comosed
Karol Tausig - concerto and Polonaise
Juliusz Wertheim - in B minor op. 1
Witold Frieman - 2 concertos, no. 1 C-to Fantasy (1911)
Apolinary Szeluto - probably 6 concertos
Raul Koczalski - 6 ctos
Stanisław Nawrocki - 5 concertos, no. 2 "With Fanfares" (there exists old radio recording) + Polish Fantasy in D minor
Aleksander Wielhorski - Polish Fantasy op. 10 (there exists old radio recording)
Borys Lomani - Fantasy
Michał Świeżyński (there exists old radio recording - I do not have it)
Tadeusz Paciorkiewicz - two concertos (there exist old radio recordings)

and for sure many more

[JimL]

I'd be interested in finding any concertante music for cello from this period.  There is a scena  by Stolpe, but it appears to be for cello and string quartet, not orchestra.  There is also the Stojowski Konzertstück, but that's about it.  I can't believe that that's all there is.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Years ago I went through different dictionaries of music and found mentions about the following piano concertos by Polish composers

But do you know how many of these are extant? That's the really important question? One could do a useful bit of research here - and it need not take very long with the internet.

[Alan Howe]

Yes, that's exactly the point here. Lists of names are one thing, but whether these works have actually survived is quite another...

[eschiss1]

The Bergson manuscript (at Northwestern) shows that it's an organ concerto, not a piano concerto, judging from http://www.worldcat.org/title/concerto-symphonique/oclc/52544298. (Or maybe that's of a different concerto symphonique of his - http://digital.library.northwestern.edu/music/gmc/mss715al.jpg shows that the organ one is in E minor. Hrm.)

Several of these works definitely exist in orchestral parts in the Fleisher Collection, and others at least in reduction (for what it's worth), e.g. Bobinski's first concerto I know I've seen in reduction (@ IMSLP)...  Worldcat shows the Andante cantabile of the latter's 2nd concerto ("Deuxième concerto (la-mineur) : pour deux pianos à quatre mains : op. 12 : andante cantabile tirédu concerto"; in an arrangement for solo piano  by the composer, a work dedicated to Paderewski, in the NUKAT catalog...) (Bobinski, first concerto, 1890 score & parts...)

I don't see Szeluto's piano concertos offhand though Worldcat does list his Op.98 -violin- concerto autograph score (1948)... (is user violinconcerto familiar with?...)

[violinconcerto]

I don't see Szeluto's piano concertos offhand though Worldcat does list his Op.98 -violin- concerto autograph score (1948)... (is user violinconcerto familiar with?...)

Yes, he is.

[Alan Howe]

Please note: 1948 is well outside the timeframe of UC. We'd have to be satisfied about the idiom of any such music.

[eschiss1]

Well, fwiw his 1930/31 string quartet is described (in an extremely negative Musicweb review of a CD of 3 of his chamber works) as "German late-Romantic" (as are the other 2 works). (All that seems to be available on disc of his is that CD and a recording of some songs. So it may be hard to say. Will see if I can find a late score to borrow, read through and describe though.)

[violinconcerto]

I just listened to the Violin concerto. It is also late Romantic.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Several of these works definitely exist in orchestral parts in the Fleisher Collection

I could find only the 1st PC of Bobinski in score and parts in Fleisher.