American Composers (The 4th of July is coming!)

[JimL]

You mean the 1812 Overture isn't about the War of 1812?

[peter_conole]

Hi all

Hi Martin. thanks for the clue about Mr Converse. It will arrive on my doorstep in a week. I love Chadwick, Paine, Beach, early Ives (yes) as well. Plus Parker, Bristow, Foote and other folk of the east coast schools. I want to actually HEAR some music by Deems Taylor.

Am with you about Sousa.  But give me Victor Herbert in even greater abundance please. I do not understand it - I know his cello concertos are brilliant and that his operettas were about on a par with those of Gilbert and Sullivan. But where are they? I want stage offerings and DVDs thereof, not more 'selections and highlghts' given with cute and patronising reviews and liner notes about how 'yesteryear' and Euro based it all was.

Strange. All credit to American musical taste and stubborn adherence (in some quarters) to a sturdy respect for classical forms allied with musical nationalism.   Solid quantities of fine romantic era music have been recorded...

It is really embarrassing when I compare such achievements (ie, simply getting the works preserved and recorded) with the scene in this country. Musical politics is 'agin' such revivals...And even against the preservation of such works in local archives. One example - I just found out (picture my rage) that the music of the first large scale work (and I mean large - chorus of 100, 4 soloists, brass band plus orchestra, by a musician who knew his stuff, year 1881) composed in my home State was ditched without a by-your-leave, possibly after the first musical conservatories were established.

regards
Peter

[mbhaub]

Deems Taylor! Now there's a long lost name. For as popular as he once was, and the movies he made, he sure has vanished from sight. But...I have played some of his music. It was the suite from Through the Looking Glass. I recall it being a lot of fun to play, well written, humorous and just a winner.  Seems like a good candidate for Naxos!

And re Victor Herbert. Do you know the tone poem Hero and Leander? I got it by "accident", as I wanted the Grand Canyon Suite from Maazel/Pittsburgh. But the best thing was the Herbert. Speaking of Herbert, I also have loved the Auditorium Festival March since the Naxos cd came out some time ago. I tracked down a score and set of parts and begged a conductor to do it on the New Year's concert. At first he wasn't too sure. It looks hard and he didn't know it, and I didn't want to spoil the fun with a cd. Many in the orchestra were also wondering what the heck is this? But at the first reading, when the trio came and Auld Lang Syne began, everyone understood why I asked to play it. It's a great concert opener, extremely well scored and oddly enough packs an emotional punch not unlike Elgar's first Pomp & Circumstance.

[TerraEpon]

Deems Taylor! Now there's a long lost name. For as popular as he once was, and the movies he made, he sure has vanished from sight. But...I have played some of his music. It was the suite from Through the Looking Glass. I recall it being a lot of fun to play, well written, humorous and just a winner.  Seems like a good candidate for Naxos!

It's on a Delos CD from the 90s, coupled with some music by Charles Griffes (a great American composer not mentioned here -- somewhat impressionistic as opposed to romantic though)
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Fantasies-Charles-Griffes-Taylor/dp/B0000006XL

[monafam]

Would someone like Alan Hovhaness fit in this as well? 

At one point I might have been tempted to call him my favorite contemporary composer.   While I still feel he has some brilliant pieces for my ears, I do have some issues after hearing more of his collection.

I'd love to hear the members' thoughts about him, his music, etc.. 

[JimL]

If I may paraphrase a member of the former Forum, Hovanhess is generally a one-trick pony.  A more precise quote would be to say that the best piece by Hovanhess is the last one you heard.

[monafam]

If I may paraphrase a member of the former Forum, Hovanhess is generally a one-trick pony.  A more precise quote would be to say that the best piece by Hovanhess is the last one you heard.

It's interesting that you say this, because that is one of my biggest concerns with his compositions.  While I really have enjoyed them, so many sound exactly the same.  I am all for a composer having his/her personal "sound", but it's something else when I feel like the same theme is being played.   

I am almost positive that I have more than one of his pieces where the same theme in one Opus (let's say a symphony) is used in another Opus (let's say a vocal work).   Is this common for composers?   I almost feel like it's cheating to get credit for another opus when the theme is not new, etc.

Another issue I have is that there are times he writes for an instrument, but in a way as if he has never actually knows what the instrument is capable of.  I have a Symphony for Guitar and Orchestra where the plunking of the guitar makes it sound like a kid just picked it up.  (He has a Guitar Concerto where he does a better job, so he obviously knows better how to use that instrument.)

[TerraEpon]

I am almost positive that I have more than one of his pieces where the same theme in one Opus (let's say a symphony) is used in another Opus (let's say a vocal work).   Is this common for composers?   I almost feel like it's cheating to get credit for another opus when the theme is not new, etc.

Sure. Bach did it all the time. So did Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Schubert, Mozart...

Hovhaness I agree has a very distinct and similar feel between all his compositions, but that doesn't make them any less interesting to listen to for me. For some good contrast, check out Symphony No. 50 "Mount St. Helens", or Symphony No. 4 for wind ensemble. His string quartets are also a bit more naturally placed, as it were. And Prayer of St. Gregory is one of my all time favorite pieces.

[monafam]

Sure. Bach did it all the time. So did Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Schubert, Mozart...

Hovhaness I agree has a very distinct and similar feel between all his compositions, but that doesn't make them any less interesting to listen to for me. For some good contrast, check out Symphony No. 50 "Mount St. Helens", or Symphony No. 4 for wind ensemble. His string quartets are also a bit more naturally placed, as it were. And Prayer of St. Gregory is one of my all time favorite pieces.

Thanks for the reply and noting that more more noteworthy composers did the same things.   I am totally with you on "Mount St. Helens" and the "Prayer of St. Gregory" -- to tell the truth there aren't a lot I haven't enjoyed (with the exception of parts of the Symphony 39 (?) for Guitar and Orchestra).    I was so enamored with his music when I first came across it, perhaps the only way to go was down.  Perhaps I've been influenced by many who don't particular care for him.   (I won't give up on him yet!)   

One more question  -- Anybody know the back story on Bernstein calling one of Hovhaness' pieces "filthy ghetto music" (or something like that)?

[Lew]

Hello everyone

I think I would choose Bristow's D minor symphony Op.24 as my favourite American symphony, though his 'Arcardian' Symphony, also in D minor (Op.50) is striking, especially in the exciting Indian war dance scherzo. I have Mark Thomas to thank for introducing me to the symphonies of G.F.Bristow.

Cheers, Lew Lewis

[monafam]

I appreciate all of the discussions and recommendations.  I just got David Diamond's Symphony No 1/a Violin Concerto/The Enormous Room and I'm really enjoying it!

This Bristow one sounds interesting as well.  I may have to check it out.

[sdtom]

The Naxos 'American Classics' series is an excellent way to introduce yourself to American composers you might have missed.  I discovered McKay and Carpenter that way.

[Karll]

William Schuman

[jimmosk]

Anyone who's never heard Randall Thompson's Symphony #3 in A minor has missed out on a gorgeous piece of late-Romanticism that mixes the lushness of Hanson with the power of Copland's "Rodeo".  I think of its scherzo in the same breath (to mangle a metaphor) as the scherzo of Rachmaninov's Second, and its gentle finale is five of my favorite minutes in all American music.

-J

--
Jim Moskowitz
The Unknown Composers Page:  http://kith.org/jimmosk/TOC.html
My latest list of unusual classical CDs for auction:  http://tinyurl.com/527t7

[Yavar Moradi]

Some of Copland's best (and most Romantic-sounding) music has finally been recorded for release on Naxos: I am of course referring to his complete film scores (never before released) to Our Town and Of Mice and Men (his first two dramatic -- and full length -- film scores). If these two are successful I'm told they'll also do a complete re-recording of The Heiress, which won him an Oscar (Our Town and Of Mice and Men were both nominated, as was The North Star, but none of those won). Of course further in the future I'd love a complete Red Pony. If you are unfamiliar with these scores or only know them through puny suites I think you're in for a surprise! They're some of his best music.

Yavar

P.S. While I'm talking about film music I must mention Virgil Thompson, who wrote some fine documentary scores but also some fantastic concert music as well.