The best of Massenet?

[Alan Howe]

Until now I'd've said it was in his most famous operas. That was until I heard Cendrillon and Don Quichotte - the final scene of the latter in particular is most extraordinarily moving. What do others think?

[thalbergmad]

He never really interested me until I heard his piano concerto that blew me away and still has a similar effect some 20 years later.

He is never short of a good tune.

Thal

[JimL]

Besides his Fantasy for Cello and Orchestra in D, I saw references to a violin concerto he composed for Henri Marteau.  Is there any information available on it?

[Alan Howe]

N'existe pas.

Anyway, back to the music that does exist...

[Mark Thomas]

For me, nothing quite matches the grandeur of the opening Prologue of Esclarmonde. It's a monologue for the Emperor Phorcas (bass), initially just against monumental organ chords but then joined by the choir and orchestra in music of sumptous lyricism and gorgeous Wagnerian chromaticism. The opera's story is Byzantine nonsense but the the rest of the piece, if not as monumental, is scarcely less attractive. I just love this middle-period Massenet of Esclarmonde, Le Mage and Thaïs, when he managed to find the perfect (for me) combination of colour, melody and spectacle.

[edurban]

I also love the Byzantine episodes that frame Esclarmonde.  The final scene adds a brief reprise of the love music to the massed choral business from the opening.  Thunderous stuff.  The Met mounted it for Joan Sutherland when I was a youth...I wish they'd bring it back.

Personally I find myself returning most often to Thérèse.  Brief, but chock full of drama, atmosphere, and good tunes, it also has a hair-raising ending.  The stream-lined plot works well, unlike the equally-brief La Navarraise...which ends up feeling rushed and faintly absurd.  Bonynge's recording is best, if you are not allergic to Tourangeau (I'm not, but some are.)

[Alan Howe]

I'm currently exploring his later operas. There's something immensely touching about much of the music - it's as if he's left behind the grander gestures (which are thrilling, I agree) to concentrate on more intimate emotions. His range as an operatic composer is huge - possibly greater than that of any other composer.

[Revilod]

If I had to choose Massenet's best and most evenly inspired, though certainly not most commercial, opera it would be "Le Jongleur de Notre Dame". As you say, Alan, Massenet's range was enormous. Could there be two more different operas than "Esclarmonde" and "Le Jongleur..." yet they are both terrific pieces.

It always amuses me how concerned Massenet was to make a quick buck! "Carmen" was soon followed by "La Navarraise", "Der Evangelimann" by "Le Jongleur...", "Andrea Chenier" by "Therese", "Hansel and Gretel" by "Cendrillon". Any other pairings?

[Mark Thomas]

Massenet is greatly underrated. Possibly because the language is French, rather than Italian or German, but I also sometimes detect a whiff of patronising condescention in reviews of his operas, the reason for which quite escapes me.

[TerraEpon]

I'm not huge on opera (in general) but I do enjoy his orchestral music -- he wrote seven suites which are full of melody and color, as well as some suites from the operas (the one from Le Cid is pretty known), as well as like four ballets -- I own Le Carillon (Le Cigale was recorded by Bonynge but only ever, AFAIK, coupled with Swan Lake on CD so I don't have it...)

[FBerwald]

Reg. the Violin concerto, before dismissing it completely, I'd like to know what you mean - The concerto has not survived but was composed by Massenet or that this work was never composed; I ask because this Violin concerto is referenced in almost all articles regarding Henri Marteau and in atleast this book - Sibelius: A Composer's Life and the Awakening of Finland By Glenda Dawn Goss. https://books.google.com.sa/books?id=929lNk1fqXoC&pg=PA306&lpg=PA306&dq=MASSENET+violin+concerto+he+composed+for+Henri+Marteau&source=bl&ots=EZa4OWTDY5&sig=XEVbajE37drM_i6x49lR8f__siU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiAgP_92b_TAhXkKcAKHVtYAo8Q6AEIOzAE#v=onepage&q=MASSENET%20violin%20concerto%20he%20composed%20for%20Henri%20Marteau&f=false

There could be many manuscripts in libraries that have not been properly cataloged .... Please clarify.

[Alan Howe]

It's mentioned in Toskey too. But a mention is not proof of existence. Many references in books are simply repetitions of an initial error, rumour, etc. Obviously one can't prove the non-existence of something, but the onus is on those who think the VC exists to come up with hard evidence.

All the book on Sibelius says is: 'Jules Massenet composed a violin concerto for this virtuoso' (meaning Marteau). There's no footnote - nothing. Toskey gives a date - 1891 - and references to articles, books etc. by Eric Blom in Grove (1951, 1961), Frederic B. Emery 'The Violin Concerto' (1969) and Nicolas Slonimsky in 'Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Musicians' (1971, 1978).

It may be significant that Grove online makes no mention of Massenet's VC in the article on Marteau by Ronald Kinloch Anderson. Nor does their article on Massenet make any mention of a VC. A case of Chinese whispers at one time, maybe?

Anyway, please let's end all speculation here - until hard evidence is uncovered.

Back to the topic, please...

[scottevan]

Yes, on topic - "Le Roi de Lahore" is the opera I return to again and again. It was one of the first to bring Massenet to public attention, and bits and pieces of that full compositional range we've discussed are found throughout the score. The ending, like "Therese," packs its own wallop. The Sutherland / Milnes recording is the definitive.

"La Vierge" is its equivalent among the oratorios; the Wedding at Cana episode is among the best of Massenet.

"Cigale" and "Carrilon" stand head and shoulders above the standard ballet scores of their time.  And I totally agree about his orchestral suites, which show his mastery of orchestration. "Scenes Alsacienne" and "Scenes Pittoresque" are particularly fine.

[Alan Howe]

It was one of the first to bring Massenet to public attention

Really? Le Roi de Lahore was actually his first 'smash hit' some dozen or so years before Esclarmonde.

In the modern era Manon and Werther maintained the composer's standing long before Esclarmonde was rediscovered and committed to disc (in 1975). Manon was first recorded in 1923 and was regularly recorded after that; Werther was first recorded in 1927-30 and again received regular recordings in subsequent years.

Unless I've misunderstood your point...

[scottevan]

>Unless I've misunderstood your point...

Perhaps; I was speaking of the response when "Lahore" was first performed, not it's reception since the advent of recordings.

I think we're saying the same thing; "Lahore" was indeed the "smash hit" that gave Massenet the foundation to build success upon success in subsequent operas. Unfortunately, it's anything but a success these days, though it deserves to be.