Massenet Violin Concerto?

[Alan Howe]

Any relevant information on this topic should now be posted here.

[JimL]

Well, I wish this were going to be a longer thread, but I received the following in response to my email inquiry (with some corrections for spelling and grammar: 

Dear James,

I'm one of the two writers of "Massenet : General Catalogue of Works" (Pendragon Press, 2017), and I've never heard about this violin concerto. It never appears in any source we have explored. I know that it exists in some letters between Massenet and Henri Marteau, but nothing more. In all case, there is no known score of this type of piece (neither in French National Library, nor in Yale or other great Libraries).

The simplest would be to have the precise source of Bernard Toskey. Where was this information taken from ? There is, of course a possibility that this piece stays in private archives but in this case, I don't know where. It would be quite surprising: Massenet didn't publish any piece for violin and orchestra. If this piece exists, in its integrality, and was already created, why wasn't it published ? That's why I have some doubts about the existence of this piece. Maybe Massenet promised to Marteau to offer him this composition, but maybe he didn't proceed... I don't know... Mystery...

If you find some more precise information about it, please keep in touch.

With best regards,

Hervé OLEON

[Mark Thomas]

Toskey gives no reference for the "Violin Concerto" at all, just three general biographical references for Massenet himself.

[Alan Howe]

That's odd. As I posted on the 'best of Massenet?' thread regarding the existence of a Violin Concerto:

It's mentioned in Toskey too. But a mention is not proof of existence. Many references in books are simply repetitions of an initial error, rumour, etc. Obviously one can't prove the non-existence of something, but the onus is on those who think the VC exists to come up with hard evidence.

All the book on Sibelius says is: 'Jules Massenet composed a violin concerto for this virtuoso' (meaning Marteau). There's no footnote - nothing. Toskey gives a date - 1891 - and references to articles, books etc. by Eric Blom in Grove (1951, 1961), Frederic B. Emery 'The Violin Concerto' (1969) and Nicolas Slonimsky in 'Baker's Biographical Dictionary of Musicians' (1971, 1978).

It may be significant that Grove online makes no mention of Massenet's VC in the article on Marteau by Ronald Kinloch Anderson. Nor does their article on Massenet make any mention of a VC. A case of Chinese whispers at one time, maybe?

Perhaps Mark and I have different editions of Toskey? In any case, there's no evidence of its existence.

[eschiss1]

But let's even suppose that Toskey was describing, as with that journalist to whom we owe that detailed description of Alkan's symphony in B minor, something he saw with his own two eyes. Even that is not proof (or even very strong or compelling prima facie etc etc whatever!!!...) of existence. Existence at one point in time is not evidence of existence now.

More music's probably been lost than exists, I'm inclined to guess...

Which is why I'm more interested in library (catalog, etc. etc. etc.) research etc. (which is still not proof positive; FLP claims to have Weinberg's 4th quartet, I asked it them, they sent me Taneev's- because they'd misfiled the latter with a stripe claiming it was the former; they may or may not have a copy of the former, for all I know...) - than in evidence based on older reports, personally...

[Mark Thomas]

Perhaps Mark and I have different editions of Toskey?

No, I don't think so. I just had a quick look at my copy. The entry reads: "1891, Violin Concerto. Biographical references:..." and the entry cites the three references, so I just assumed (fatal, I know) that that's what they were, as opposed to references to the concerto itself. My bad, as the young people say. One of them (references that is, not young people) is Slonimsky, my copy of which certainly makes no mention of a violin concerto.

[JimL]

I wonder if it's possible that Marteau received a score of the violin concerto by Massenet and held onto it, unperformed, then published it as his own work 4 years after Massenet's death?

[Gareth Vaughan]

Anything is possible. But this is merely idle speculation.

[Alan Howe]

Not only idle speculation, but utterly ridiculous - as anyone who has heard the Marteau will testify.

It's also a terrible slur on Marteau's character from which I wish to dissociate myself and this website in the strongest possible terms.

[JimL]

My apologies.

[eschiss1]

I had considered the possibility that it might be in Marteau's archives/estate somewhere but I have no idea where those are. In Sweden somewhere.

[mjkFendrich]

Marteau's estate can be found in Lichtenberg, Oberfranken (part of Bavaria).
They also regularly organize a Marteau violin competiton.

[Alan Howe]

My apologies

Accepted, of course.

[BerlinExpat]

In 1891 Massenet was working on the symphonioc poem "Visions" which calls for an off-stage group including a solo violin. (See page 175 of Demar Irvine's "Massenet".)
I can find no reference in Irvine to either a VC or Marteau. It appears the only instruments Massenet ever played were the piano or timpani, but I suppose that doesn't rule out composing a VC.