Martin Scherber Symphony 2 CD available again!!

[Alan Howe]

Hadrianus tells us:

Regarding that deleted CD with Martin Scherber's 2nd Symphony, I have arranged that the remaining stock is being offered till end of July by Music Web at a special price:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Jun/Adriano%20special%20offer.htm

I am in charge of the deliveries.
Take this opportunity, the music is great!

Do take advantage of this generous offer!
Alan Howe/Moderator

[adriano]

... and it also looks as if there would be a remaining stock of the CD with Scherber's Third Symphony! The person responsible just left for a holiday, so I can confirm this only after July 3rd.

[Alan Howe]

Thanks, Adriano.

[M. Yaskovsky]

Just had a listening to the 2nd symphony last Sunday evening. What a glorious work this is, with some beautiful unfolding string melodies, hammering and pounding brass marches. Great. I only wonder about the track listing. The CD says 5 tracks but there's no information about that in the informative booklet and the work plays without any pauses at all. Puzzling....

[eschiss1]

Well, his symphonies were published by Kurras (symphonies 1 &2 , at least the latter an autograph facsimile ) and Bosanhek (symphony 3 - autograph fac) in 1971, 1972 & 1971, so at least they hopefully exist somewhere outside of barely accessible ultralocked university manuscript dungeons and the scores can be consulted (... in principle) to answer these questions? Will check further a bit if I can with what I have before I rush off to work (sorry!!...)

(St Pancras (British Library) is said by Worldcat to have a copy of the Kurras publication of symphony 2, if a Londoner wants to put that on their list of things to skim next they visit the library, or something, etc. Don't know if it works that way or if St Pancras is a loan-only-for-money-only (no reading on premises) sort of library - I should have thought to check it out back in summer 1999 (my last time I spent a week in London...) but didn't.)

Also seem to be copies of the score of no.2 @ Northwestern U (US), the Sorbonne (Paris), at least one (each) Irish, Dutch and German libraries, etc. And of course ÖNB Vienna.

(Hrm. Actually, Kurras and Bosannek have both issued symphony 2 in published score. The latter is a facsimile. The former might be engraved/typeset; not sure from the info I have. FWIW... Likewise true/mutatis mutandis uncertainty, I think, of sym. 1 in d.) Also some chamber music listed on Worldcat- a 2 vn/piano trio, one or two other works. FWIW again.

(Reminder to self, start thread or look for thread on Halm later. Cheers)

[adriano]

@eschiss1
Before he passed away I discussed with my friend Friedwart Kurras about making accessible scores of these three Symphonies.
Of Symphony 1 (score and parts) I have already made digital scans for my own recording. These manuscripts are quite readable, Symphony 1 not all too perfectly. But it was not a "Kurras" affair, officially it was a Brucknerkreis thing. The Publisher of Symphony 3 is Peermusic Classics.
As soon as I have more time I can take up this matter and let you know.
But don't forget, it's still copyighted music, and for all copy made a special permission is needed!

[adriano]

@Yashokvsky
Scherber did not like to subvidide his Symphonies into movements, so it was decided to make of Symphony No. 2 just one track. Five "sections" may be recognised. His metamorphic build-up spans over the whole work, from beginning to the end.
However, as far as my recording of Symphony 1 is concerned, I decided to make of it a 4-track thing. But the work has no a single separate movement indication in the score.
But, since after some longer genaral pauses the orchestra starts a quite different "metarphosis", one can guess that the composer was perhaps hesitating between a movement separation or a long pause.
By the way, Scherber's tempi are very laconically indicated. In a composer's note, the interpreter can decide himself what is appropriate within an allegro or so, even a few Metronome idications are just "orientations". Whilst studying ths score, I noticed that one has to establish a "main metronome" tempo and make all other depending from it. Once this has been found out, the Symphony flows perfectly. This 1st Symphony is only 29 mintes long, compared to the more expansive other ones!

[Gareth Vaughan]

(St Pancras (British Library) is said by Worldcat to have a copy of the Kurras publication of symphony 2, if a Londoner wants to put that on their list of things to skim next they visit the library, or something, etc. Don't know if it works that way or if St Pancras is a loan-only-for-money-only (no reading on premises) sort of library

One cannot take books out of the British Library. They must be read on the premises in the designated Reading Rooms. Persons applying to become Readers must provide two pieces of personal identity (in the UK it is usually a Passport or Driving Licence + a utility bill - don't know how it works for non-UK nationals). They must also make a convincing case why they need to be a Reader (this sounds onerous, but usually it is enough to show that the work(s) one wishes to consult are available nowhere else in the UK, or only at other copyright libraries). But one cannot just stroll in and ask to see something, especially since not everything is kept on site and some things may take 24 or even 48 hours to arrive from repositories elsewhere in the country. That said, most of the scores we are interested in on this forum are held on site and can be ordered up from the stacks fairly quickly.

[eschiss1]

@hadrianus- certainly. Fairly sure the editions in question will be copyright everywhere for quite some time, I think, though since the publications were published more than 25 years ago the autograph manuscripts themselves _may_ no longer be copyright protected from being separately scanned/used as the basis of a new edition/... (manuscript copyright law is a bit complicated.) (as to protection- in the US, anyway. In Canada and the EU everything he composed, iirc, is protected until 2025 and 2045 respectively (1974+51 / 1974+71.))

(Not an issue in this case since unlike in some other cases, the autographs, I suspect, are probably being held quite securely by the Scherber Gesellschaft-or-similar-name)

[eschiss1]

Gareth Vaughan-
"One cannot take books out of the British Library."

Ah, was just referring to reading on premises, as one can or could do (without borrowing from, at least in my case) with the Research Library of the Library of the Performing Arts in NYC (which used to be, but no longer is I think, part of the Lincoln Center Library @ New York City. I think it's in a separate building and requires advance requests now.) As to needing to be a Reader etc., interesting. Hrm.

Closer-by, LoC may have it, though the "unk" in unk84084224 is not promising (as I've had explained to me by librarians there, not every item with a "unk"nown in their catalog is actually necessarily in their stacks. Some of them are. Worth asking. OTOH asking a librarian to thumb through a score to find the movement headings seems a bit much; hopefully they're actually on the 2nd page, or something. As often, though... well, maybe I should send an email to LoC... (unless, @hadrianus, since you also have the score, you have some time this summer to check the aforementioned movement headings - or since there are probably lots of tempo changes, maybe to see what headings correspond to the 5 tracks of the recording (I should see if I can get a chance to hear that soon myself. Will make an effort to)- or something...?? Cheers! )

[adriano]

I don't have this score anymore, I borrowed it 2 years ago, to return it to the Brucknerkreis after a few weeks. But, as soon as I have time - and Kurras' succesor has returned from holidays - I will arrange for scans and "perusal scans".
Please realize that I am very busy with various projects at the moment and can occupy myself with new matters only later in autumn; you have to remain without knowing those sections' timings until then.
In Europe, composer's copyright extend to 70 years after his death, and MS coprights are an individual matter, provided it has not been published in the form of a rental score. In the latter cases, there are strict rules over here. The onwer decide upon autographs or hndmade copies, and they also decide upon rental or perusal charges. Should any Library have one of those scores in the form of photocopies, the Brucknerkreis and I just wonder how the got there.

[eschiss1]

Apologies if I implied that I was in a frantic screaming hurry (actually, my avoidance-level panic was reserved for Academy of Peer Services modules some of which I was trying to get done by Friday and one of which I actually managed to finish (not that they're any of them so difficult)- too much information, sorry.) So far as I'm concerned when you can get to it is fine I don't seem to yet have (wholly legitimate?) access to a recording in any case, I think. I may have heard it on WQXR or Radio Stephansdom or somewhere, my memory jogs me, some time back, but of course it would be good to again. Of course even prior to audition it "sounds" interesting enough- intriguing enough anyway - and hoping that it finds a sponsor so that it can be available more generally. (I have bought from Records International- not yet from Musicweb - but even then only once or twice, as against more often, back when I got CDs, from Amazon and elsewhere...)

Do the recordings of symphony no.2 say "B minor" on the frontispiece? Worldcat seems to suggest they do. (The scores as listed in Worldcat suggest the keys are no.1 in D minor, no.2 in F minor, no.3 in B minor. There's also a piano trio and a couple of other things by him recordings of which might be easier to make (than symphonies) (logistically, 3 people vs. 200,000,000,000,000,000,000*; permission would still need having) but no idea at present whether they're recorded or worth having etc.

Thanks!

*exaggerating by lots for fun, sorry... though as a fan of Sorabji's Jami symphony (heard so far only in an - enjoyable imho - synthesized version) - truly well-handled superlarge-orchestra, superheavy counterpoint works (thinking also Vermeulen 5, some other things) don't put _me_ off...

[Alan Howe]

The front cover of the CD clearly says "B minor":

[eschiss1]

Huh. Odd. Also see Symphony no.2 in B minor (= Symphony no.2 in F minor).

[Alan Howe]

Very odd.