Hyperion RPC series: Bronsart & Urspruch

[Alan Howe]

Although I have it, I've never played Ponti's Bronsart very often, so I suspect I'm going to like the new CD.

[Revilod]

I agree that the first movement of Urspruch's concerto is far too long for its attractive but rather slight material. It's also very limited in emotional range. On the plus side it's very clearly constructed... but is there really enough material here to justify fullscale orchestral and then solo expositions?  The other movements are much more successful, though. ( By the way the trilling entry of the soloist in the first movement immediately put me in mind of Faure's Ballade for Piano and Orchestra which, I see, dates from the previous year. )

Yes, I agree that Despax can't quite match Ponti's spirit in the finale of Bronsart's concerto but I don't think he's too far off. The movement still packs a punch.

[Alan Howe]

Sorry, but the first movement of the Urspruch is all wrong - far too glutinous and sticky, not to mention slow. It's just awful: no match, I'm afraid, for the cpo performance. So, a bit of a curate's egg of a release: the Bronsart's splendid - it has real Schwung - but the Urspruch is badly misjudged. What a shame. In any case the coupling's all wrong too: to follow the Lisztian pyrotechnics of the Bronsart with the Brahmsian mellowness of the Urspruch makes no sense at all. The Draeseke PC would have made a great coupling, but that's aleady been done; the Raff would also have been much more appropriate.

So: three cheers for the Bronsart, one for the Urspruch...

[Mark Thomas]

Each time I've listened to Despax's Bronsart I have appreciated its merits all the more. It's not only a worthy modern replacement for the Ponti recording, IMHO it quite eclipses it. Admittedly I'm no great fan of Ponti's speed-merchant showmanship (others are, I know, and this concerto is certainly a splendid vehicle for it), but what Despax demonstrates is that the work has both fireworks and, in the first two movements, genuine grandeur and beauty. It's a hugely satisfying listen. I didn't get the Urspruch and, judging by Alan's verdict, that was a wise decision.

[FBerwald]

It seems I'm in the minority here (not with regards to the Bronsart which is spectacular!) - I agree that on 1st hearing, the Urspruch performance doesn't match the CPO in terms of energy and that, as we all know is because of the same old problem - tempo - When will Hyperion realize the the correct speed of an Allegro or rather Allegro ma non troppo which they seem read as Adagio. But other than the speed, I quite liked the expansive performance - Again in terms of the structure of the 1st movement, I was able to assimilate more and was surprised to hear wonderful details I missed in the CPO. The orchestral playing is clearer than CPO (may be that's the recording quality) and the pianist, though mellow doesn't lack energy just because he plays a tad slow (I do admit, I wish it was faster).

PS: I think the reason why many people have a problem with with Urspruch concerto is because they mistakenly think (especially in the 1st movement) the compose overindulges (I initially thought so) but I think that Urspruch is a more complex composer then we think... Urspruch knew exactly what he was doing and if we take a few steps back and look at the movement as a whole (rather then very pretty snatches of movements - from near... it soon starts to loose momentum), the piece is tightly(imho) constructed.
I'd like to point out that I'm going through some sort of Bruckner catharsis now - I've made my opinion on how boring Bruckner is for me quite a number of times on this forum but I seem to be coming around, I fact I'm slowly falling in love with his symphonies as I am (repeatedly) progressing through the whole 9 - I think the key is looking at it like an impressionist painting. Too near it and we only see beautiful brushstrokes - but step back and we see a "painting". Sorry about the semi-rant but I feel we listen to music from a "What I wish the composer would write" frame of mind instead of " What did the composer write?"

[Ilja]

I'm not a Ponti fan at all, generally, but the Bronsart finale needs a bit more spirit than Despax gives it, in my view. He is very safe, and as such the complete opposite of Ponti. As I wrote my opinion of the Urspruch's 2nd and 3rd movement is more positive than Alan's (we've perhaps exhausted the shortcomings of the opening movement). But overall, this release is a welcome addition, and I'm glad we have it.
FBerwald, you may have a point regarding tempo on the Urspruch, but it's perhaps the piece's ambition, here translated into expansiveness, that makes it a bit overwhelming. It would be interesting to know if Raff, Urspruch's colleague at the Hoch conservatory, had anything to say about the work. It's definitely not a piece that reveals itself upon first hearing. Still, if I compare it to the immediate attraction of, say, Moszkowski's equally-long first concerto, it's evident that the latter makes its points far better.

[FBerwald]

I agree Ilja - Moszkowski is even longer but he packs it in with more stuff like a Dvorak symphony and it's immediately appealing. With Urspruch, I feel it's more of development of the materials.

[Alan Howe]

I have to disagree about the Urspruch - for me the first movement simply falls apart the way Despax does it. I was bored, which I never have been with the cpo.

Choice of tempi is a frequent cause of disagreement among reviewers. I suspect it will remain so with this release.

[Ilja]

The more I listen to that first movement of the Urspruch, though, the more I get the impression that something is just not right. Can anyone supply the tempo indications from the score?

[Alan Howe]

The tempo indication for I (as stated by both cpo and Hyperion) is 'Allegro ma non troppo'. I've no idea what more information, if any, the score gives. Despax/Tzigane just get it completely wrong.

[eschiss1]

Judging from MPH there's no metronome indication on the first page of the Urspruch score.

[Alan Howe]

So it comes down to what 'Allegro ma non troppo' means. With Despax/Tzigane I hear 'non' troppo', but not 'Allegro'. With Triendl/Fritsch I hear both.

[Mark Thomas]

Harriet Smith's review in this month's Gramophone is very positive about the Bronsart, but not about the Urspruch (but still preferring Triendl's to Despax's interpretation of the latter).

[Masterraro]

I have been following the discussion re the Urspruch PC with interest' especially the nutty problems re tempo - to me the CPO recording gets it just about right - an Allegro ma non troppo with a 12/8 flowing feel. I think the main trouble with the first movement is that Urspruch does not seem seem to modulate far enough from the tonic key for a movement of that length - it spends far too much of its time in E flat major, of  which the ear tires  greatly after a while. I also do not find there is enough melodic variety for a movement of that length. A pity as otherwise there is much that is beguiling.

There is a score available to purchase and you can see the first page of the score with the Preface for free at https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/wp-content/uploads/vorworte_prefaces/1449.html. This German company produces a great deal of 'Unsung' material, though at a price!

[eschiss1]

Oddly, Mahler 8/i has the same "problem" but though it's not my favorite of his symphonies I agree with Schoenberg that in that case the composer somehow knew how not to make it feel like a problem. Urspruch perhaps not so much (I haven't listened to the aircheck I have of the concerto recently but neither has it drawn me back...)