Ina Boyle VC, Symphony 1 & Psalm etc. from Dutton

[JeremyMHolmes]

Thanks Gareth, will do!!

[Gareth Vaughan]

named after a poem poss by Burns I believe, or a folk tune??

It's a poem by Edmund Spenser actually, Eric - "Colin Clouts Come Home Againe".

[Alan Howe]

I have complained too.

[TerraEpon]

It would have been nice of them to, say, put a link in the book of the disc so that one can DL it. I've seen it done elsewhere.

[JeremyMHolmes]

I have had the most frightfully high-handed (and border-line rude) response to my complaint to Dutton. How has anyone else fared?

[Gareth Vaughan]

So have I. I give it below, followed by my response:

Hello,

Thank you for your e-mail. However, the bonus track (no. 19) on the Ina Boyle disc is clearly billed as an "SACD bonus track," which indicates that that is exactly what it is - a bonus track that will play only on SACD (as opposed to standard) CD players.

The maximum running time of a standard (PCM) CD is 79m 57, whereas on an SACD it's up to 110 minutes - hence the inclusion in this case of the extra track on the SACD layer, which otherwise wouldn't have appeared had this been a standard PCM CD.

While we very much appreciate your support of and interest in our releases, we had hoped that you would have welcomed the inclusion of additional SACD material (at no extra cost) rather than bemoaning the fact that it can't be played on a standard CD player, despite its "SACD bonus track" billing.

Kind regards,

Oliver.
Vocalion Ltd/Dutton Epoch Retail & Export Team


Dear Oliver,

Thank you for your response. You suggest that I should be grateful for the, for me, unplayable bonus track and not "bemoan" its inclusion. Relatively few listeners have SACD players - none of my acquaintance - so there is no advantage to us at all in having a track which we can't play! Nor in knowing that there is an additional work by this interesting and neglected composer on the CD which we can't hear! It is of no consequence that it is "at no extra cost" since it is something I cannot enjoy, without purchasing an SACD player, so I wouldn't expect to be charged for it.

Had you provided a link from which the track could have been downloaded in, say, MP3 format, that would, indeed, have been a valuable bonus, for which I would have been extremely grateful.

Your response does nothing to mitigate my pique, and I sincerely hope Dutton will discontinue this practice in future - unless, as I suggest above, a link to an MP3 download is provided for those of us who cannot play SACD tracks.

Yours sorrowfully,

Gareth Vaughan

It says very little for their Customer Relations Dept. I think the pressure should be kept up.

[JeremyMHolmes]

Well, he sent me exactly the same response, right down to the egregious use of the word "bemoan". I agree wholeheartedly with your response, Gareth, both in its content and the very tactful and professional way it is expressed.

Their customer service certainly does seem very lacking - I wonder if a phone call to Mike Dutton would be of any avail?

[Gareth Vaughan]

You can try, but I expect you will only get through to the offensive Oliver. We need as many of us as possible to write and keep writing until we get a satisfactory response. I hope Alan has written. He is not a man to put up with such treatment without protest.

[Alan Howe]

This is the reply I have received from 'Oliver' (whoever he is):

Hello,

Thank you for your e-mail. However, the bonus track (no. 19) on the Ina Boyle disc is clearly billed as an "SACD bonus track," which indicates that that is exactly what it is - a bonus track that will play only on SACD (as opposed to standard) CD players.

The maximum running time of a standard (PCM) CD is 79m 57, whereas on an SACD it's up to 110 minutes - hence the inclusion in this case of the extra track on the SACD layer, which otherwise wouldn't have appeared had this been a standard PCM CD.

While we very much appreciate your support of and interest in our releases, we had hoped that you would have welcomed the inclusion of additional SACD material (at no extra cost) rather than bemoaning the fact that it can't be played on a standard CD player, despite its "SACD bonus track" billing.

Kind regards,

Oliver.
Vocalion Ltd/Dutton Epoch Retail & Export Team

To which I have replied:

Hello Oliver,

Thanks for your reply; however, you have completely missed the point, for these reasons:

1. The rear inlay says: 'This Hybrid CD can be played on any standard CD player'. This is clearly FALSE.
2. While it is perfectly in order to include a 'SACD bonus track' (as per the rear inlay), what it should read is: 'SACD-ONLY bonus track'.

Frankly, I find your reply irrelevant to my concerns as a consumer. I shall think twice before buying Dutton products in future.

So, my question is: why is the CD in question inaccurately described on the rear inlay?

Yours sincerely,

Alan Howe

[JeremyMHolmes]

Having received the same email from Offensive Oliver as Alan and Gareth, here is my response, for what it is worth:

Dear Oliver,

Your reply to my email sets out very clearly why you feel Dutton were justified in taking the approach they did with the so-called 'bonus track' on this new CD. An approach with which I whole heartedly disagree. I am fully aware of the technical constraints imposed on the amount of music on a CD, but you make no mention of there being any possibility to offer this track as a download (either free or for purchase), despite me raising this question.

However, what I find most egregious, and frankly insulting, is your high-handed, autocratic and disrespectful tone throughout this reply. A reply which I note you have sent verbatim to at least two others who raised an issue over the same matter, all of which betokens a signal lack of regard for a (hitherto at least) loyal customer base, and one on which I would have though you would want to be able to rely in these challenging economic times.

I will think long and hard before making any further purchases from your label.

Yours,

Jeremy Holmes

[Gareth Vaughan]

A few more in that vein might make them wake their ideas up.

[BerlinExpat]

Why don't CD Producers use 90 Minute CDs? I use Philips 90 Minute CDRs for works up to that length which might otherwise be split over two standard CDs and am quite satisfied with the results.

I hope this new Dutton practice isn't viral!

[Gareth Vaughan]

In any case, I have a  CD bought in the 1980s and part of a Berlioz box set which has a running time of 82 minutes, so Oliver's statement about the maximum running time of CDs is clearly incorrect.
There must be a reason why 90 minute CDs are not used commercially, but it may not be a very convincing one of course!

[eschiss1]

Not clearly incorrect, actually. 82-plus minute CDs have indeed been produced for as long as you say of course- other examples include some 1-CD Bruckner releases ...- but at least at first (still?) would not play on all audio CD players. (Even 80 was pushing it with some, but that's probably not true now.)

[Gareth Vaughan]

I wasn't aware that there was (had been) a problem with 80+ minute CDs. OK, I stand corrected.