Friedrich Hegar's "Manasse"

[Reto Schärli]

but I kind of don't get the issue about devil... maybe stupid me, but where should he appear in the story?

I think you misunderstood me - I was talking about the issue of 'evil' (Übel) which was an essential component of the story of the historical figure of Manasseh as King of Judah, not the 'devil' (der Teufel).

Ah ok, I see. That makes sense, I think I got your point Sorry about that!
In German we have the lovely saying: "Der Teufel steckt im Detail!", which means
"The Devil is in the detail" - so in this case in the form of an absent letter...

Regarding "evil" I agree with you, there could have been some dramatic layers added to the piece, definitely.

That would be a theological discussion, but I have always wondered in general how we must think of Esra (from what I read in the Bible). I'm not yet decided upon that - on the one hand he was sent to establish law and order, on the other hand he never made a big "brutal" impression on me either... Isn't it all a matter of the point of view one takes?
Maybe someone has to write a piece on "Esra", there would be possibilities of showing him as a "victim" as well...
The Old Testament can come up with a lot of dramatic potential for this kind of pieces, can't it?

[adriano]

@Reto
I did not write that I am hearing "a lot of Brahms"; I just quoted what has generally been written about Hegar's style.
@ Everybody: Please let me discontinue writing further opitions on this subject. I must use my little energies for more urgent and important matters...

[Alan Howe]

I don't hear Brahms - or Wagner. It seems to me a middle-of-the-road late-19thC German idiom.

[Reto Schärli]

@Reto
I did not write that I am hearing a lot of Brahms; I just quoted what has generally been written about Hegar's style.

Ok, I see. Completely agree with this, though I really don't see much Brahms in the pieces by Hegar that I know so far.

@Alan Howe: Maybe the question of "operatic" is a matter of definition. I agree with you both that certainly the text by Widmann has a psychological design, in fact I consider this idea the main thing of the piece because after all it's this message transported that counts. The plot certainly is not operatic at all, I'm completely on the same page as you.

However, the musical setting into scenes (which themselves are sub-divided into smaller units, as pointed out rightly by Kretzschmar) is an operatic idea after all, also the formal conception in detail of those (in particular interesting is the fact of where the Choir enters). They build up to big dramatic outbursts that - consider it operatic or not- have a tremendous emotional intensity. I take the original subtitle "dramatic poem in 3 scenes" very literally!

Maybe the question of "operatic" or not is not too relevant, I just really want to point out that the piece is not "standard German oratorio" tradition as its design is more dramatic-lyric than symphonic, which I think is a rather unique thing in the time (proof my wrong!).

[eschiss1]

its title is Dramatic Gedicht, iirc, so some dramatic quality somewhere is suggested, but not necessarily operatic. "Oratorio" is not on the score, though...