More Ries from Naxos

[eschiss1]

Hrm. I forget if the concerto opus 55 in C-sharp minor has appeared yet in the Naxos concerto series - I -assume- it will be, even though it has received several recordings on other labels (one of Ries' few works to receive such treatment, though not his only one.) This leads me to guess in turn that the series is not yet done.

The cpo series of Ries' string quartets was not intended to be complete, was it? (I would have hoped it would be, but I recall someone saying here or elsewhere that it was not - unfortunately. I hope there will be more than 2 volumes. I have only heard a movement or two, broadcast on Belgian radio, so far, if I remember correctly. Good stuff though- not a fact that surprises )

Eric

[JimL]

Hrm. I forget if the concerto opus 55 in C-sharp minor has appeared yet in the Naxos concerto series - I -assume- it will be, even though it has received several recordings on other labels (one of Ries' few works to receive such treatment, though not his only one.) This leads me to guess in turn that the series is not yet done.

The cpo series of Ries' string quartets was not intended to be complete, was it? (I would have hoped it would be, but I recall someone saying here or elsewhere that it was not - unfortunately. I hope there will be more than 2 volumes. I have only heard a movement or two, broadcast on Belgian radio, so far, if I remember correctly. Good stuff though- not a fact that surprises )

Eric

Yes.  The 3rd Concerto, Op. 55 has been done.  I think it was the 2nd or 3rd in the series.

[eschiss1]

ah, thanks- sorry about that.  Concerto no.3 in Naxos 8.557844, volume 2. To judge from the Naxos website (http://www.naxos.com/person/Ferdinand_Ries/24316.htm) , concertos 3-8 have all been recorded in the Naxos series. I remember that the concertos are numbered in publication order - trying to remember if concertos 1 and 2 still exist, and if there are more than 8... the Naxos series is also supposed to include other works for piano and orchestra besides concertos, so there's the question whether all of those have been covered as yet (Hill's book?)...

ok, no, according to the notes for 8.557844 there definitely is a concerto no.2 (in E-flat, published 1812)... not yet recorded by Naxos, I think.  I'm guessing but do not know that concerto no.1 may survive. Naxos may elect to record the violin concerto too for all I know even though cpo has already done so - who knows... they mention it enough in those notes.

[Jonathan]

Hi All,
We've recently bought one of the Naxos CDs of the piano concertos (volume 4 with the concerto pastorale) and think they are lovely works - looking forward now to getting the whole set!

[Martin Eastick]

The one of Ries' sonatas I hope that Naxos do not pass by is the superb Op160 sonata for piano duet, which in my mind is amongst his best work, and also being one of his later contributions, falls well within that interesting period of developing romanticism. Apart from that it is an excellent example of quality 4-hand writing and most entertaining, having had the good fortune to have been involved in several perfomances some years ago now!

Some may remember this work from a BBC Radio3 broadcast from 1984 (Ries bicentenary year) but to date has never had a commercial recording. To round off a perfect prospective CD one would hope for the earlier (and slighter) Op47 4-hand sonata and perhaps one or two of the 4- hand polonaises! I have already suggested this as a possibility to Naxos and hope that the idea may be taken up, but I am sure that similar requests from other interested parties would not go amiss!

[Peter1953]

Vol. 5 looks mouthwatering.., see here

[FBerwald]

Does the Ries Piano Concerto Exist? I mean the listing of concertos on the net is as follows

    Concerto for 2 Horns in E flat major WoO 19 (1811)
    Concerto No. 1 for Violin and Orchestra in E minor op. 24 (1810)
    Concerto No. 2 for Piano and Orchestra in E flat major op. 42 (1808)
    Concerto No. 3 for Piano and Orchestra in C sharp minor, op. 55 (1812, pub. 1826)
    Concerto No. 4 for Piano and Orchestra in C minor, op. 115 (1809, pub. 1823)
    Concerto No. 5 for Piano and Orchestra in D major, op. 120 'Concerto Pastoral' (c.1816, pub. 1823)
    Concerto No. 6 for Piano and Orchestra in C major, op. 123 (1806, pub. 1824)
    Concerto No. 7 for Piano and Orchestra in A minor, op. 132 'Abschieds-Concert von England' (1823)
    Concerto No. 8 for Piano and Orchestra in A flat major, op. 151 'Gruss an den Rhein' (1826)
    Concerto No. 9 for Piano and Orchestra in G minor , op. 177 (1832/33)

So is the Concerto No. 2 for Piano and Orchestra in E flat major op. 42 (1808) in fact Piano concerto No. 2 [assuming the numbering follows the order of the Concertos he composed] or is it the elusive Piano concerto No. 1?
Also since the list clearly shows a Piano Concerto No. 9 why do all articles mention that he composed ".. eight piano concertos.."

[albion]

since the list clearly shows a Piano Concerto No. 9 why do all articles mention that he composed ".. eight piano concertos.."

It seems a peculiar system, but the concertos were apparently numbered irrespective of the solo instrument employed and thus there isn't, and never was, a 'Piano Concerto No.1'. The summary in Grove -

Orchestral

8 syms.: op.23, op.80, op.90, op.110, op.112, op.146, op.181, woo30 (1822)
5 ovs.: op.94 'Don Carlos'; op.162 'Die Braut von Messina'; op.172, with triumphal march; woo24 'bardique' (1815); woo61 'L'apparition' (1836)
Vn Conc. (Conc. no.1), op.24; 8 pf concs. (numbered 2–9), op.42, op.55, op.115, op.120, op.123, op.132 'Farewell to London', op.151 'Salut au Rhin', op.177; Concertino, pf, orch, woo88; 3 variation sets, pf, orch: op.52, on Swedish national airs, op.116, on 'Rule, Britannia', op.170 'brillantes'; 2 rondos, pf, orch, op.144 'brillant', woo54 (1835); Polonaise, pf, orch, op.174; Conc., 2 hn, orch, woo19 (1811)

[eschiss1]

According to Naxos, the numbering of the piano concertos very definitely follows publication order, not composition order.

There is a incomplete (only up to op.169 maybe or so - "Seiten 108-147 sind leer" - I'll check my copy) partially composer-maintained Ries worklist in manuscript with incipits and work dates and places of composition that has been scanned in by the State Library (Stabikat) of Berlin (and is at IMSLP.) At IMSLP it can be downloaded here - it may be of some interest - not sure whether or not it clarifies. Hill's book on Ries' works probably does. I don't think any of his unpublished works are there though (hrm, I really need to give it a -good- read-through- sigh ...) , but of those that are, yes, op.42 written in Petersburg in 1811 is the first piano concerto mentioned, written (unless Bonn means place published- I'm actually not positive... !! - but I think composed is meant...)  a year after the violin concerto... (by then he'd already written 30 piano sonatas...)

Actually, I notice that the opus numbers in this worklist are successive but the dates go to and fro (the opus 40s-ish works associated mostly with dates between 1809 and 1812- except for one 1824... hrm... not sure what the dates refer to, in the strict and usable sense- ah well. And conversely, op.120 is associated with "London 1814" but the concerto op.123 with "Bonn 1806"...) (The 7th concerto unsurprisingly has London 1823, though- "Farewell to England" does tend to suggest the London part.)

[Gareth Vaughan]

Any news of the last volume in Naxos' Ries PC series?

[thalbergmad]

My understanding is that the piano concertos are usually numbered 2-9, albeit the Richault Edition of the Op.42 clearly marks it as the 1st.

Thal

[FBerwald]

If that's the case then Naxos has got the numbering all wrong!

[eschiss1]

Hrm. Hill, Ries, and Naxos all agree, far as I know... Richault is the odd one out-- therefore Hill, Ries and Naxos are all wrong?

Follow me through your reasoning

[FBerwald]

Take for ex. Concerto No. 7 for Piano and Orchestra in A minor, op. 132 'Abschieds-Concert von England' . If we assume the correct numbering system [by instrument] then this would actually be Piano Concerto No. 6.   Naxos Lists it as " Piano Concerto No. 7 in A major, Op. 132, "Farewell to London" "! Follow my reasoning Count Jim Moriarty....

[eschiss1]

to misquote any number of people, you're looking for logic where logic is not going to be (and exactly missing my point).  You're right- Naxos calls it No.7. You forgot that Ries, in his Catalogue Thematique which I already mentioned, -also- calls it No.7 as I recall (... I'll double check. It's definitely true that he calls op.42 no.2). You can download the Catalog from SBB or from IMSLP.

I should think the composer's opinion counts for something here.

There are cases (Dvorak symphonies) where consensus has agreed that it does not go as publishers or composer would say, but consensus, such as it is, with Ries, seems to be to stick with the Hill (compiler of the Ries incipit/werkverzeichis etc.)/Ries/Naxos numbering, not other numberings (of which there are several more natural ones.)

BTW my name is Eric, not Jim, though I'm flattered to be confused with him.