Saint Saens: Le Timbre d'Argent

[BerlinExpat]

Note that this seems to be the version Saint-Saens revised for Brussels in 1914

The Programme maintained that for the Brussels 1914 production Saint-Saens reinstated cuts made in previous productions where theatre managers had insisted on them. Perhaps more precise details will be revealed in the accompanying book when the CDs are released.

[Aragion]

I've listened to the broadcast and think it is an undoubted masterpiece of French opera, from the brilliant overture to the magnificent choral finale. I've checked the complexity with 1913 year-vocal score: there are some cuts in the last act, including ballet scene. But I'm not sure this is the same version as was staged in La Monnaie.

[jdperdrix]

The score is available at the BNF and can be downloaded here:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1163812z/f18.image.r=le%20timbre%20d'argent

This is the 1913 version which differs significantly from the 1877 version (arrangement by Georges Bizet), available on imslp.

The broadcast is this version with and there are some cuts (ballet music) in the 4th act (I didn't check the first two.)

[Christopher]

The arrangement in the download section is whose?

[eschiss1]

Possibly the composer himself this time? Don't know. Published by Choudens in 1913 or 1914 (BNF says [1913] - (suggesting they have reasons, e.g. stamp perhaps, to be fairly sure of the date of the publication of this reduction), even though the revision itself is given composition dates 1913-14.)

Wait, what do you mean, the arrangement in the download section? The arrangement @ Gallica or the opera revision? The latter is by Saint-Saëns I'm sure since he was alive until 1921, but the former - the vocal score reduction --- _might_ be by Saint-Saëns (rather than Bizet as for the first version of the opera, say) . But color me confuzzled as to what you're asking...

[jdperdrix]

The score at Gallica is copyright 1913. The author of the reduction is not mentioned.
The score at imslp is Bizet's reduction and there is no indication of a date on it.
The opera, as the comments say during the broadcast (which have been cut by me), say it is the Brussels version of 1914, revised by Saint-Saëns. It is this version I've uploaded on mediafire. It seems very close to the 1913 version with a few cuts.

[Christopher]

Wait, what do you mean, the arrangement in the download section? The arrangement @ Gallica or the opera revision? The latter is by Saint-Saëns I'm sure since he was alive until 1921, but the former - the vocal score reduction --- _might_ be by Saint-Saëns (rather than Bizet as for the first version of the opera, say) . But color me confuzzled as to what you're asking...

I mean the recording in the Download section.  Not sure why that's confusing.... But at least you now know what it's like reading many of your posts Eric!

Anyway I think jdperdrix has answered.  And many thanks to him for this upload!!  Now for Ascanio....

[eschiss1]

When they say "Brussels version of 1914" they mean the version premiered in 1914, but it's the version composed 1913 or 1913-14, the version whose vocal score was published in 1913 and is downloadable from Gallica (with those cuts etc. etc.)- it's not a _third_ version. In opera, apparently, one says a work is from the year it was premiered in, not the work the composition was finished in; this is the linguistic general agreement in the language of opera, I gather. (There must be a better way to say that - ah. "term of art"? Yes. That's it. Sorry- I'm sleepy and slightly senile, I think.)

[Aragion]

Wikipedia says about the grand opera version of 1913. May be vocal score from Gallica refers to it along with 4th act ballet (wich could be cut for the 1914 performance).

[jdperdrix]

Only significant differences between this performance and the 1913 score are the cuts in the 4th act. Otherwise a few repeats are omitted. No more can be said to this point!

[Alan Howe]

The Paris performance conducted by François-Xaver Roth will be broadcast on BBC Radio 3 next Thursday (29th) at 2pm.

[Alan Howe]

Here's a review of the performance:
https://bachtrack.com/review-timbre-argent-roth-opera-comique-june-2017

[Mark Thomas]

I've at long last got around to listening to this opera, courtesy of jperdrix's recording of the broadcast. Despite the extensive cuts in Act 4, which are more than just the ballet, it's an interesting and very enjoyable piece which showcases Saint-Saëns' skills as imaginative orchestrator and fine melodist. What it doesn't do is say much for his early skills as a dramatist, because there are so many instances of inappropriate musical settings of the text. This doesn't matter a jot if one is simply enjoying the music, which is throughout colourful, vigorous, melodic and quite highly charged, but matching it to events on stage makes one realise how often Saint-Saëns' musical choices are downright bizarre in this, his first opera. One has only to listen to the lengthy (slightly too lengthy, actually) Overture to get a flavour of what's to come: is that jaunty, lyrical and very upbeat piece, fun though it is, really an appropriate curtain-raiser for a dark Faustian tale of obsession, temptation, avarice and death? Yet the Overture's material comes from the opera itself...

Disregarding what they're singing about, I found this a really enjoyable listen, and I'm looking forward to Palazzetto Bru Zane's recording being published, but as an opera it's an odd, odd piece of work. By the way, it's well worth reading this blog post about Le timbre d'argent by someone who is slowly surveying all of Saint-Saëns' music. It's an amusing but perceptive read.

[Christopher]

..... and I'm looking forward to Palazzetto Bru Zane's recording being published....

They are doing this one too?  Are they committed to doing all of them?

[Mark Thomas]

I have no idea, but I understand that they will at least be releasing a recording of this one.