Hermann Graedener Violin Concertos 1 & 2

[eschiss1]

matesic - how does the style of the 2nd violin concerto compare to the same composer's 2nd string quartet Op.39 (published and maybe composed around the time, and which I know you're familiar with?)

[FBerwald]

I'm sorry Alan but I DO blame Hyperion. The fact that they can't engage artists is their fault. CPO, Dutton, Naxos, etc don't seem to have much trouble securing Violinists and Cellists to record unfamiliar repertoire - and they have been releasing unsung romantic music for quite some time. So the problem is purely Hyperion and not the old flimsy reason of "not being able to find dedicated soloists" or "ratio of pianists of string soloists", etc. Even if we ignored concertos, Hyperion could still record the many Romantic Symphonies still languishing in manuscripts. Rufinatscha - for eg. or a new set of Raff, or how about Draeseke. The Unrecorded Symphonies of Napravnik or Graedener... the list goes on. So. in the end of the day. it's a Hyperion management issue.

[eschiss1]

FBerwald- excuse me.
Just because cpo, Dutton, Naxos have succeeded you say they have not had trouble. On what grounds? (Edit: sorry, much trouble. I repeat the question.)

[FBerwald]

I never said, they had no trouble, but the fact is they have succeeded.

[eschiss1]

Yes, that's why I edited my question quickly. I am still unconvinced by your argument.
(Edit: which, to be clear, if you hear yourself, amounts to "hey, if _those_ buffoons can succeed, surely you can too Hyperion if you just exert yourself a little! You must not even be _trying!_")

[FBerwald]

You do not need to agree with everything I say but the proof is out there - I'll quote myself from a post I made in the topic "PCs by L.Grossman, V.Pukhalski & H.Bobinski" - posted in 2018 (before the recent Scharwenka release)

"...it doesn't quite explain why other labels have been able to release quite a number of romantic violin concertos (without having any committed series of any kind)... I'm thinking Gernsheim, Holbrooke, Reznicek -  this only from CPO during the last 2 years but Hyperion released the last of its (sung but nevertheless wonderful) Bruch series in early-2017, recorded in 2015. This seems more a Hyperion issue rather than a lack of Violinists. "

[FBerwald]

Also, I never intended to call anyone a buffoon - I just don't buy into Alan's arguments posed for Hyperion not being able to progress the RVC or RCC.

[Mark Thomas]

As I understand it, Hyperion's policy is (or certainly used to be) that they would nurture a stable of soloists with whom they'd have a long term, but not necessarily exclusive, relationship. I've also been told that violin-focused CDs sell much less well than piano- based ones. These factors, plus the shrinking classical CD market over the past few years have probably militated against an RVC series on the scale of the RPC one. It was probably Hyperion's strategy to launch the series to capitalise on the success of RPC, but I suspect that lower sales of the first volume(s) curbed their enthusiasm. I do share the disappointment, but we should remember that labels are first and foremost businesses.

[Alan Howe]

Hyperion's policy is (or certainly used to be) that they would nurture a stable of soloists with whom they'd have a long term, but not necessarily exclusive, relationship.

Exactly. I have suggested certain soloists for particular repertoire, but they haven't gone down that route for the reason Mark names.

There's no lack of solo violinists or cellists, by the way - just fewer than there are pianists. That's a simple fact.

[matesic]

I've been persuaded I should listen again. The second movement of Vc2 I did find impressive with its deep sense of Innigkeit and ghostly dance in the middle section.  Likewise the second subject of the first movement, similarly intimate with its pizzicato accompaniment, but at the very opening I just think "Oh dear, do we really need more Bruch?". The first movement cadenza seems distinctly overweight, the finale on the other hand a bit perfunctory. These days we're so accustomed to technical perfection that I can't help noticing the odd blemish, for example many of the soloist's skyrockets seem to end slightly off pitch and there are passages where to my ears she sounds a little insecure and tentative. Overall I'd say both work and performance are worthy efforts, and if that sounds like faint praise...

Eric reminded me of the second string quartet published in the same year, 1905.
https://imslp.org/wiki/String_Quartet_No.2%2C_Op.39_(Gr%C3%A4dener%2C_Hermann).
Like quite a few others I spent a week recording several years ago, I wouldn't have recognised it! I could easily be persuaded it's by the same composer, although it seems to hark back more self-consciously to Brahms and earlier classical models. Yes, I think some proper quartet should record it

[Alan Howe]

Even if we ignored concertos, Hyperion could still record the many Romantic Symphonies still languishing in manuscripts. Rufinatscha - for eg. or a new set of Raff, or how about Draeseke.

All Rufinatscha's symphonies have already been recorded, as have Draeseke's - in very fine performances - and Raff's symphonies have all been done more than once. So I don't find those suggestions at all helpful. A much better suggestion would be Wilhelm Berger's two symphonies and that by Julius Otto Grimm.

Anyway, with that, let's return to Graedener and leave the blame game behind us. This is, we should remember, a golden period for recordings of unsung repertoire.

[eschiss1]

those aren't languishing in mss with some exceptions (like Gernsheim's early E-flat or Huber's unnumbered A major, or some of Stanford's and Parry's- or some others eg mentioned in a recent book by Fifield. Could make a good separate thread if done well and not left to list offcenter.)

[Raffzunov]

Hello. This is my first post. Sorry about my basic english.
I'm a fan of orchestral romantic music, but only in a "listener level".
I have read here about the desire of cd recordings of symphonies of Berger, Grimm or Napravnik, and this for me is the most interesting. so I suggest to the moderators to open post or posts about composers to starts orchestral cycles, like the mentioned, and other about are not complete, like Cowen, Czerny, Fuchs, Klughardt, Lachner etc, etc
Thanks for your atention.

[eschiss1]

That would be a good (but separate/new or reawakened older) thread perhaps. Though Fuchs' symphonic music _has_ been recorded mostly complete I think (the slow movement of his 3rd is my internal background music just at this moment, fwiw), except maybe for a few overtures and what's left of some student symphonies hidden in the Austrian National Library perhaps... (and by that standard several others of these composers aren't quite completely recorded either; the 2 "complete" Gernsheim cycles lack his early E-flat symphony, again, and various overtures, symphonic poems, etc. could be collected under one aegis to the extent they've been recorded at all.) (As to Czerny, I hope symphonies 3 & 4 do still exist! And as to Grädener sohn, I've been curious about his C minor symphony but the response to this recording seems lukewarm enough that I doubt I shall be hearing it )

[FBerwald]

But the series is titled Orchestral works. So I presume we'll get them along with the other concertos.