Library of Congress ; Raff ; making sense of things

[eschiss1]

This is probably a very easy problem...

The Performing Arts archive of digitized scores at the Library of Congress (http://loc.gov/performingarts/index.html) has 7 works that turn up under a search for Raff.

(This is not counting the other very very large archive of digitized scores at the LoC, at memory.loc.gov . but can get to that elsewhen.)
Some of them have opus numbers attached (op.29 , op.130 no.2) - the others - are - hrm. "The Fall of Richmond"? (US pub.1865) "Major General Sheridan's Quickstep"? (US pub.1864) (and a couple of others.) I admit the ulterior (though permitted, afaik, and unprofitable) motive of uploading these with full attribution to IMSLP once I know what their original titles are- but that bit's a bit of a stopping point. Halp?
Eric

Most likely solution: This is a different Joseph Raff!... Raff's op.29 is not an "Autumn Song". (It's possible one of the works in their collection is by Joseph Joachim Raff, but probably at most one, the opus 130 etude- if that! Erm. Sorry. will have to find out who this other Joseph Raff is though- now I'm curious, not because of great quality, but- because!)

[Josh]

Is it possible that people in the US were setting war-related words to music by Raff to create battle songs on the cheap?  This was done fairly often in the US.  For that matter, even the US national anthem is a lifted tune.  The music could very well be by Raff, but it could be from something absolutely unrelated to the US Civil War, which Raff would probably have cared little about.

Anyway, my guess - with admittedly no information to back it up - is that it is the very same Raff, just putting words to his tunes without his knowledge/consent.  Then again, maybe with his consent and a small fee?  I have no idea.  Just tossing it out there as a possibility.  It sprang to my mind instantly.  Happened a lot in the US (and every "western" country, to some extent or another, before the 20th century).

[eschiss1]

Is it possible that people in the US were setting war-related words to music by Raff to create battle songs on the cheap?  This was done fairly often in the US.  For that matter, even the US national anthem is a lifted tune.  The music could very well be by Raff, but it could be from something absolutely unrelated to the US Civil War, which Raff would probably have cared little about.

Anyway, my guess - with admittedly no information to back it up - is that it is the very same Raff, just putting words to his tunes without his knowledge/consent.  Then again, maybe with his consent and a small fee?  I have no idea.  Just tossing it out there as a possibility.  It sprang to my mind instantly.  Happened a lot in the US (and every "western" country, to some extent or another, before the 20th century).

Could be. Though that opus 29 oddity "Autumn Song" (not because it's a song, but because of the opus number) still pokes out at me- maybe it's a typo ...
Anyhow, if anyone recognizes the tunes in the links in my first post as being by Raff- I'll look among his piano pieces etc. on IMSLP (etc etc) too of course- I'll appreciate. If it's an arrangement of a piano work to include voices by someone else, can always add the piece to that opus number (for instance, someone set a Moszkowski serenade, from his opus 15, to music in the 1880s, the National Library of Australia scanned the piece in, and that too is now on the Moszkowski opus 15 page under Arrangements & Transcriptions ) Thanks very much indeed!

E

[Mark Thomas]

I came across this some years ago and, if I remember correctly, I was able to establish that there was an upstate New York composer called Raff (don't remember him being Joseph) active in the 1860s-80s who wrote popular, light piano pieces. Maybe he came from Binghampton, perhaps? Raff is quite a common name in SW Germany, so immigration to the US will have produced a significant number of Raffs, one of whom (in upstate New York once again) was Joachim Raff's own younger brother Kaspar. I was sure that I made a note of all this at the time, but a quick search this morning shows up nothing.

I guess that it is possible that some of Joachim Raff's early pieces were being republished in the US. There was no copyright agreement between the US and the European states at the time and so there'd be nothing to prevent it. But I wonder why anyone would go to the bother of adapting a piano piece as a song, renaming it and publishing the result 3,000 miles away without the composer's or the original publisher's permission and then still credit him as the composer, when he was totally unknown in the US? At the time I was intrigued by this little mystery only the score title pages had been digitised, so I wasn't able to compare the music itself, which I'll try and do - unless Eric gets there first!

[Mark Thomas]

I've done a little more digging and I'm 99% confident that the Joseph Raff of The Fall of Richmond, Autumn Song etc. is not THE Raff. Autumn Song is Jos. Raff's op.29, but Joachim Raff's op.29 was Liebedfrühling, a collection of six songs without words for the piano. But it was never published and is now lost. Secondly, we have the dubious pleasure of being able of listen to a couple of Jos. Raff's piano pieces: The Second Fall of Sumter and The Fall of Richmond, both obviously Civil War commemorative occasional pieces. If these are by Joachim Raff then I'm taking down raff.org now! Finally (for now at least), the Library of Congress has also digitised Jos. Raff's op.16, a Valse Rondoletto Always Pleasant which clearly shows a dedication to "My pupils Fred and Louis Owen, Oswego NY". Autumn Song is dedicated to "Miss Anna L Platt of Oswego NY". I doubt that Joachim Raff had any pupls on the shores of Lake Ontario!

So, it looks as if the American Joseph Raff was from Oswego (not Binghampton as I misremembered). Joachim Raff's brother Caspar emigrated to upstate New York, but I don't know when and can't immediately find my note of where. His full name was Joseph Caspar Raff. Might the American Raff be Joachim Raff's brother? It's an intriguing thought....

[Peter1953]

Well, intriguing it is. According to the Tennessee Roots Index there was a Casper Raff. In 1870 he was 24 years old, originated from Germany (POB?), his occupation was tinner (whatever that is), and he could read and write... See here . Casper Raff is No. 13A/127/259

[eschiss1]

Neat, I live not so far from Oswego (now, anyway.) And thanks!

[Mark Thomas]

Just to finish off this little genealogical diversion, I found the notes which I had made some years ago about Joachim Raff's brother Kaspar. I see that I had established that he had emigrated to the USA in the 1850s and settled in, you guessed it, Oswego NY working as ... a music teacher! His full name was Joseph Kaspar Raff, just as his elder brother's was Joseph Joachim, named after their father Joseph.

So there you have it, the US composer Joseph Raff was none other than the younger brother of Joachim Raff. What a satisfying conclusion. Thanks, Eric.

[eschiss1]

having posted a little note not to confuse the two composers (unlikely from the quality of their output and other concerns, but ... well... briefly put... Beethoven wrote potboilers...) to the discussion section at http://imslp.org/wiki/Category_talk:Raff,_Joachim, might I update the note so (perhaps with a link back to this thread)? And thank you!
Eric

[Mark Thomas]

From the New York Times, of Saturday 15 July 1893:

Professor Joseph C Raff, an eminent composer and professor of music died at his home in Binghamton, NY Thursday evening. He was sixty two years of age. He was well known in his professional capacity throughout the state.

Joachim Raff's brother Joseph Kaspar was born on 12 July 1831.

[eschiss1]

Inclined to write someone at the LoC about this and see what sort of additional information they would need to add dates to his entry in authorities.loc.gov
Eric

[Mark Thomas]

That's up to you Eric. I'm just in the process of finding out more about brother Joseph Kaspar/Caspar on ancestry.com. He styled himself a "professor", but worked out of a music shop in Binghamton. He lived in Owego, a suburb of that city, by the way, not Oswego on Lake Ontario. It seems that he emigrated to the US "before 1868" (obviously, as he was publishing music there during the civil war) firstly to Pennsylvania, where his first two children were born, before moving to NY. If I find out any more I'll be sure to let you know.

[eschiss1]

Irrelephantly that's even closer to me - on the commercial bus ride between me and my family (near New York City) we stop in Owego-no-s .

Or maybe not so irrelevantly, if there's any records there I could find that aren't easy to get otherwise... - I can't drive, but I may be able to get transportation.

[JimL]

It might be of interest to see if there is any music lying around in MS in some local archive.  You're probably more adept at that than I.

[eschiss1]

I did write the Perf. Arts division of LoC (in part since they attribute the op.130/2 scan they have, which really is by Joachim Raff;  along with the works more clearly by J.K. Raff (J.C. Raff?) to "Joseph Raff" too- well, Joseph Joachim Raff and Joseph Kaspar Raff are both "Joseph Raff" but there's th'rub) - anyhow, got a good response saying they'd forward the question and data I sent along (with attribution and link here, of course!) on.
Eric