Gerd Prengel: my 1st Symphony in C minor

[dhibbard]

Is this considered Romantic period music??

[Alan Howe]

Well, more accurately, 19th century-style music inspired by Beethoven and Schubert - hence well within our remit.

[gprengel]

Gerd: do you know the music of Rufinatscha?

No, I never heard of him before until just now. But what I just listened to didn't appeal to me very much (in contrast to Niels Gades' early symphonies, Lachner and Kalliwoda from the same time). Why are you asking?

Gerd

[Alan Howe]

Have you tried this?>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMqR86CI81M&t=2027s

Post-Beethoven/Schubert - and not really related to anyone else...

[gprengel]

Dear Alan, I listened to this symphony - I like the Adagio but especially the Finale, which is really splendid! Thank you!

But through this by chance I also got to know the in youtube following 2nd symphony by Bristow which is even greater - a real discovery for me (movements 1,3, and also a fantastic Finale! Wow!!!!

[Alan Howe]

You can't really compare Bristow with Rufinatscha. Although Bristow's 1st Symphony dates from the late 1840s, No.2 was written in the mid-1850s, i.e. in the wake of the symphonies of Mendelssohn and Schumann. Rufinatscha, by contrast, wrote his first Symphony in 1834 and his great D major Symphony (No.5) was written in 1850, making him a contemporary of Mendelssohn and Schumann, and influenced by neither. As with Lachner, whom I find to be a much less interesting composer, and yourself, the major influences on Rufinatscha appear to be Beethoven and Schubert, with distinct pre-echoes in his final two symphonies of Bruckner.
Try his wonderful B minor Symphony of 1846:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-WlqLI5TGA
Nothing like this is heard in the symphonic repertoire before Bruckner! In my humble opinion Rufinatscha in this time-period is as original as Berwald, although, of course, totally different.

[Gareth Vaughan]

I share Alan's admiration for Rufinatscha and wholly endorse his comments.

[Ilja]

Maybe I'm allowed a note of dissent here. I find both Rufinatscha and Lachner to be very interesting cases, although for entirely different reasons. Although I have always considered Rufinatscha to be very talented composer, he mainly strikes me as solid, but not terribly adventurous. Lachner is the opposite; there is a definite want of form, but his voice is unique and he does take risks, not all of which pay off. His choice of thematic material is quite unique and while others on the forum have found it wanting, I always thought the lightness of touch was something unique, that carried me through the admittedly endless movements. My problem with Rufinatscha has always been that while it's invariably very pretty, it also takes very few risks and gets a bit ... boring after a while.

[Alan Howe]

For me it's the other way round entirely. Lachner just goes on and on; invariably his symphonies are simply too long and would benefit from pruning. His material can't bear the weight of development to which he subjects it. With Rufinatscha, on the other hand, we enter a sound-world that is entirely original and, to me at least, fascinating, even mesmeric.

The major criticism of Rufinatscha's symphonies is that they don't really 'go anywhere' (e.g. from minor to major) in the way that, say, Beethoven's do. I think this is true of No.3 (in the partial reconstruction by Huber), but certainly not of No.5. With the B minor Symphony I can see that this might apply, but the whole work is so powerful and original that in the final analysis I am won over by its sheer magnificence. Lachner doesn't get anywhere near this level of inspiration, originality or melodic memorability in any of the symphonies of his that we know.

Anyway, we should probably return to Gerd's fine work...

[gprengel]

Thank you, Alan, the b-minor symphony is really great!! Especially the Finale!!

[Alan Howe]

It is indeed a great work. Its musical progenitor is, I believe, Schubert's Unfinished Symphony (especially the first movement of that work) and you can also hear pre-echoes of Bruckner's sound-world. It is astounding that the world doesn't know this extremely important symphony.

Thanks for giving us your opinion, Gerd.

[jandl100]

I'm a new forum member, have just signed up and this is my first post.

What a treat that this is the first thread I looked at - lovely music, Gerd!  The Schubert antecedents are very strong for me.

[Alan Howe]

Hello, and welcome to UC!

[jandl100]

Thanks Alan - I know I shall learn an enormous amount from the forum, and hopefully I can also contribute some.

Following on from Gerd's comment "But through this by chance I also got to know the in youtube following 2nd symphony by Bristow which is even greater - a real discovery for me (movements 1,3, and also a fantastic Finale! Wow!!!!"

Listening now on YT, and the Bristow 2nd is just amazing - thanks Gerd for the heads up.