Górecki passed away

[Peter1953]

Yesterday, the 12th of November, Górecki died in Katowice at age of 76. He owed his international fame to his 3rd Symphony, 'A distant echo of God's word'.

[Alan Howe]

Sad news - but he was hardly an unsung composer. I can't think of a more unjustly 'sung' piece than G's dreary 3rd Symphony. IMHO, of course. It more or less was ClassicFM in the station's early days.

[JimL]

Yesterday, the 12th of November, Górecki died in Katowice at age of 76. He owed his international fame to his 3rd Symphony, 'A distant echo of God's word'.

Funny.  Here in the States, at least, the 3rd Symphony is known as the Symphony of Sorrowful Songs.  I was unaware there was another nickname for it.  Is anyone familiar with his 2nd, Copernicus Symphony?

[Alan Howe]

Jim is right, of course. But oh dear, that symphony: I never want to hear it again.

With apologies to G's many fans...

[eschiss1]

I recall hearing a few works of his that I did like and will more happily remember him for those. To music, though.

[Peter1953]

Yes, that 3rd Symphony with its subtitle Symphony of Sorrowful Songs. In an article on Górecki, published in NRC, a Dutch newspaper, it was stated that Górecki considered his 3rd, like his other works, as 'A distant echo of God's words', apparently borrowing words from Karol Wojtyla, the polish pope John Paul II.
I cannot listen to this utterly sorrowful symphony without thinking of the Holocaust. But that's another discussion we had in a former thread.

[Mark Thomas]

Obviously the passing of Górecki is a sadness and I don't mean to disparage his memory in any way by saying that I would happily never hear his dreary and unimaginative Third Symphony again. The sorrow it expresses was heartfelt no doubt, but the medium by which he expressed it has no subtlety, no real depth. It's a "Hallmark Card" emotion which belongs, in the UK at least, to the same distasteful public display of transferred emotion which was exemplified by the very un-British mass mourning when Princess Diana died. Maybe I'm getting old and curmudgeonly (well, no "maybe" about it), but I don't subscribe to the view that one has to express every fleeting emotion publicly, punching the air in exhaltation or giving vent to wailing ululation as the occasion demands. For me it's the same with music: part of its power is the ability to express the nuances and undercurrents of emotion, the contradictions and mood swings. Wallowing in half an hour of unrelieved maundering reduces the power of the message. Ten minutes, with some light and shade would have been much more effective.

But don't mind me, I probably just got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning!

[Alan Howe]

No, you got out of the correct side. In any case, G3 is hardly unsung music. Nuff said?

[petershott@btinternet.com]

'Old' - well it is entirely relative, and 'curmudgeonly', no trace of that at all! I found Mark's comment both diplomatic and spot on right, especially his relating of the Third Symphony and its reception to contemporary British culture.

I've always wanted to have a little bit of a soft spot for Gorecki. He seemed a modest, sincere and self-effacing man, and with not a trace of that dreadful pretentiousness that seems fully characteristic of those composers who subscribe to the so-called 'new simplicity'. On the one hand it was (in principle) terrific that here was a composer who got the masses to listen to a symphony orchestra. (The irony I suspect was that here was a composer of limited means who hardly set out to compose a commercial best-seller, but then found himself thrust into such a role with little idea as to what to do next. And hence the long protracted, and never completed, fumblings towards a Fourth Symphony). On the other hand it was unfortunate that when the man in the street tuned into FM Radio and listened to this work (I have considerable difficulty in thinking of it as a 'symphony') all they were exposed to was a prolonged and rather aimless meandering wailing exercise in navel-gazing. What is not revealed at all is that the symphony orchestra is, truly, one of the most astonishing and staggering achievements of humankind that to my mind easily outclasses all the other seven so-called wonders of the world.

So was there more to Gorecki than this symphony? My conclusion was: sadly no. All the works I've heard were more or less more of the same. The Second Symphony I found marginally more interesting, but pretty dismal fare compared to a whole avalanche of symphonies composed in the last 20-30 years. In my world there is constant conflict between the symphony and the string quartet as the rightful occupant of the top notch in humankind's achievements. Did Gorecki score greater success here? Alas no. The 3 quartets played by the Kronos Quartet were issued on a pair of CDs of excellent technical quality. But, heavens, imagining sheep jumping over a gate I found a far more effective means of conveying my consciousness from one state to another than listening to Gorecki's quartets.

Doubtless Gorecki has done something to someone somewhere, and may he now rest in peace.

Peter

[eschiss1]

I was actually thinking of the harpsichord concerto and Lerchenmusik, if memory serves; and while the early Three Pieces in the Olden Style on an EMI compilation CD with Szymanowski's stunning violin concertos and Baird's Colas Breugnon suite could only be mere filler, they were ok filler -...  and it never pleases me to see the passing of a composer of classical training and reasonably inventive mind - in some works anyway displayed I think - in a musical world where those seem to be almost vanishing qualities.  (Despite my considerable admiration for some still-living - at last check - composers - like Milton Babbitt, Sondheim - recent ones like Roger Sessions and Robert W.L. Simpson - and others - I am certainly at heart a musical reactionary or maybe just conservative. FWIW and seriously straying from topic with apologies again. No, after a certain point in his life he wasn't unsung (Gorecki) and his style does put him outside the orbit (... ambit??) of this forum?... but I keep thinking, with the passing of Genzmer (a much better example, really!), too, Jindrich Feld, etc. just in the last few years, and of quite a few just in 1996 alone, etc. ... - composerhood may be in a sorry state.

My feelings "buck up" a bit when I hear some of the enjoyable and well-constructed new music posted by living composers on imslp.org (J. Manookian does good work from the few works of his I've heard so far; he's posted quite a bit of his own music in score and various performances - imslp.org has hosted mp3 and other audio formats for some time now... anyhow, of his music from piano sonatas to concertos, choral music I think and symphonies, there ...) - but overall impression remains the same. Digression hopefully not entirely a digression.
ES

[Gareth Vaughan]

Readers of this forum will know my view of Gorecki's 3rd Symphony - and know that it accords with Mark's and Alan's. But I am sorry to hear of his passing. He was a not undistinguished composer but the repeated exposure of the 3rd Symphony, while it may have done his bank balance a lot of good (and hurray for that, say I), I believe it did little for his artistic reputation. He is now beyond praise and blame, however, and "De mortuis nil nisi bonum" should, therefore, be our motto where he is concerned.

[Gerhard Griesel]

Thanks to Peter for informing us of Górecki's passing.

Confession: I like his No. 3 and made a point of buying it after I had heard it the first time in 2007.

Gerhard

[Alan Howe]

And why not indeed? Each to his own, of course. If only that symphony hadn't been so over-exposed...

[Peter1953]

Poor Górecki, who probably didn't ask for the hype caused by Classic FM... 

[eschiss1]

Poor Górecki, who probably didn't ask for the hype caused by Classic FM...

not being in Britain, I usually associate the increase in hype with a movie that came out using symphony no.3 (well, part of it!) as background music. (An internet search suggests "Police" - the movie that's coming to mind is - ah. Police, 1985; Fearless, 1993. Also other films more recently. A partial list at IMDB. Fairly sure I haven't seen any of them. BTW ClassicFM was founded 1992, so one of these films does precede )