Lachner Symphony No.7

[Gareth Vaughan]

It seems to me there is a good case for making an edition of the 7th which includes the discarded Andante from the 6th as Tuomas suggests, thus producing a balanced symphonic work of which the composer would likely have approved.

[terry martyn]

That´s an excellent suggestion,Gareth.  And eventually some recording label could do, not just the Second and the Fourth, but the Seventh as well.

[Alan Howe]

It'd be interesting to know whether the work of friends on this forum prompted the new recording of L6. If it did, then it'd be worth making sure that the conductor/label is aware of these new developments.

[Ilja]

It seems to me there is a good case for making an edition of the 7th which includes the discarded Andante from the 6th as Tuomas suggests, thus producing a balanced symphonic work of which the composer would likely have approved.

Since the composer didn't include it in either version of the symphony, it appears pretty clear to me that he wouldn't have approved.

[Gareth Vaughan]

You may be right, Ilja, but it would be nice to have it as an appendix to No. 6 at any rate. Although, of course, one could argue that since he discarded the 7th as a symphony altogether we ought not to resurrect it. But if we adopted that principle we would be robbed of a lot of good music.

[eschiss1]

agreed. I'd rather keep eg Bizet's symphony in C than refuse it on the basis of such a principle!

[tpaloj]

Very good points here. It might be difficult to program the discarded Andante on disc unless as part of the 7th Symphony. But I lean in the direction of presenting it as a separate work to respect the composer's decision, even though I personally disagree with Lachner about it.

Interestingly enough, the only way we can really tell that the Andante is not meant as part of the 7th Symphony is because it's not included in Heinrich Esser's 4h-duet arrangement. Remember, that Lachner split up the 7th Symphony's original autograph score when he worked on the suite in the 1870s, and at that point all the movements became separated from each other. You could make all kinds of theories about what the original score might have looked like, and whether if the Andante was part of it, before he salvaged it to produce the Suite...

[Gareth Vaughan]

Any reconstruction is bound to be to some degree conjectural, so I can't see any real musicological problem with my original suggestion, so long as it were made clear that the resulting work was just that: conjectural. Heaps of similar examples come to mind, not least the various reconstructions of Schubert symphonies.

[eschiss1]

the Andante dates from around the time the 6th was composed and has been suggested as being his first go at a slow movement for -it-, not the 7th, symphony, tpaloj. I'm confused.

[eschiss1]

We are talking about this andante, not another?

[tpaloj]

Yes Eric, we've established the Andante was the first version of the 6th symphony's slow movement, later replaced by a different slow movement. I was just theorizing if Lachner might have had plans to include it in the 7th symphony later on.

[eschiss1]

ah. yes, makes sense. Especially if he wrote the Andante first before the 6th symphony (given that they're in the same key, that makes more sense to me than writing an entire slow movement in the home key and mode; finding that the symphony that one then wants to write is in the slow movement's key seems more likely, then trying to find a place for the discarded slow movement. Not unprecedented, etc.! Apologies, wasn't thinking carefully ...)

[Ilja]

The situation seems comparable to that of Atterberg's 7th, where the composer just chopped off the final movement ("Vittorioso"), leaving the piece with the present three. Whatever we may think of that, it's good that Järvi père recorded that piece so that we can make the comparison.


The same, I feel, applies here: it's good to have so we can compare versions for ourselves. Although we should be careful to assume that the composer "would approve", that isn't really important either since they're not the ones in charge. And I feel free to disagree with the composer: for example, I think Atterberg made a mistake, as the 7th Symphony is just better with the discarded finale.

[semloh]

tpaloj thank you so much for this realization of the 7th. I have enjoyed it enormously - tuneful without any loss of grandeur or gravity. How fortunate we are at UC to have people such as yourself who can bring the scores to life in this way.

[gprengel]

Yes Eric, we've established the Andante was the first version of the 6th symphony's slow movement, later replaced by a different slow movement. I was just theorizing if Lachner might have had plans to include it in the 7th symphony later on.

Dear tpaloj, lately I am so very much enjoying especially the first movement of the 7th symphony (or 7th suite) - with its passionate and powerful main theme and its most lovely second theme - wonderful (but I like also the Scherzo and the final Fugue)!!
Now I read of this Andante in D-Major - did you record that also by now? If not I may like to do that (at least the begining to get an idea ...).

Gerd