Raff symphonies from Chandos

[Gauk]

Amen to that - it's a great disc and went straight to my iPod. It would be great to have a Jarvi Raff 5 ... or 8 or 9.

[Alan Howe]

Any Raff with Järvi will be a major event. The release of No.5 is a mouthwatering prospect...

[Alan Howe]

The Raff 2/Chandos release gets a good review from Rob Cowan in April's Gramophone magazine. He mentions Mendelssohn, Schumann, Wagner and Strauss (R) in connection with the symphony. "A perfect place to dip a toe into Raffian waters", writes Mr Cowan. Quite so!

[chill319]

Haydn placed increasing emphasis on the finale in his symphonies over the decades. Mozart interspersed operatic tropes with instrumental ones in much of his later music, including the late symphonies.  Beethoven found something entirely new and original in his Eroica, then emphasized narration in different ways in his two most influential symphonies (6 and 9) Raff followed the lead of the best of the previous generation (including Spohr, Mendelssohn, and Schumann) in pushing the potential of the narrative envelope in his symphonies. Enter Brahms, incomparable genius, and Hanslick, clever intellectual who did not understand what Raff was doing. For decades Brahms was derided. Then in the 20th century his day came, as Bach's day came in the 19th. For the same reasons, Raff fell into neglect. The widespread understanding of Raff's narrative strategies will come in the latter half of the 21st century, unless we destroy civilization first. The arrival of that day will be speeded by the advocacy of Mark, Alan, and their cohorts on this forum, who contribute, in my opinion, as much as conductors like Jarvi, to the integration of Raff's heart and mentation into the weave of our common culture.

[mbhaub]

...For decades Brahms was derided...

Huh? Brahms' genius was recognized in his time by most musicians, critics, even conductors. He had his detractors to be sure, but who doesn't? But his music was highly respected, widely performed (at home around the world), and published. Recall von Bulow's remark "at last, the tenth". His choral music (not so well known today) was quite popular as was the piano music. The four symphonies have never been out of the repertoire and are still pillars that orchestral seasons are built upon (for better or worse). I love Raff's music a lot: I've been rabidly collecting it for 40 years. But it will never come to concert halls the way Mahler's did, it will never usurp Brahms, Beethoven or Tchaikovsky. Was it David Hall who wrote "Raff's music fell from favor for the best of reasons"? The truth can be painful. In the US, classical music sales account for only 1.2% of all recorded music sales. Where would Raff fit in that low number?

[Alan Howe]

The simple fact is that the best of Raff is fully the equal of the best of Brahms, although the two composers are very different. Raff was not as self-critical as Brahms with the result that, for example, his symphonies vary far more in quality than do those of Brahms - but then there are eleven of them! Of these at least four, I would argue, ought to be in the standard symphonic repertoire - but it appears that this repertoire is more or less fixed, with very little chance of any 19th century unsung works being granted permanent entry. Clearly this is unjust - but equally clearly orchestras, conductors and concert-goers don't seem to care.

Maybe the answer is akin to what the period instrument brigade had to do, i.e. establish orchestras whose specific purpose is to play the unsung romantic-era repertoire - hopefully one day to sell-out audiences with recordings of the concerts to follow. We can dream...

[Alan Howe]

...of the formation of the London Romantic Symphony Orchestra, perhaps. Any nominations for its first chief conductor?

[JimL]

Do the initials C.F. mean anything to you?

[Alan Howe]

I think so...

[Peter1953]

I'm still in doubt whether to buy the CD or not. It's a fact that Raff is one of my to absolute favourite composers, and it's a fact that I like his Symphony No. 2 very much. But it's also a fact that my time to listen to music is rather limited and that in the past I've given Stadlmair's Raff's Second a spin just once a year, at the most. There is so much to listen to. And I'm not a collector of classical music, I'm a listener to classical music. Oh dear, what a comfortable problem this is.

[Alan Howe]

Järvi is better than Stadlmair. Is that a good enough reason?

[Mark Thomas]

Not only in the Symphony. Arguably, the four Shakespeare Preludes are as important pieces and, where Stadlmair's performance of the Symphony is good, these Preludes are very badly served by him, being given lacklustre, underpowered and unimaginative readings. Järvi's account of each one is in a totally different league. It's interesting that several of the mainstream reviews of this CD, wrongly in my view, seem more enthused by the Preludes than by the Symphony, but I think that's a measure of Järvi's achievement in his performances of them.

[Gauk]

- but it appears that this repertoire is more or less fixed, with very little chance of any 19th century unsung works being granted permanent entry. Clearly this is unjust - but equally clearly orchestras, conductors and concert-goers don't seem to care.

I think it is rather that concert-goers are uninformed.

Also, there are two inherent approaches to the unfamiliar:

1. "This is new to me - I probably won't like it."
2. "This is new to me - something new to try!"

It doesn't matter whether it is music, or theatre, or food, you can find the same responses. I recall a friend (very unmusical) complaining to me that her current boyfriend always used response #1 whenever she wanted to go and see a new play.

Sadly, #1 seems to be completely ingrained now in modern concert audiences, perhaps as a reaction to Glockism.

[eschiss1]

Or Glockenspiels. Can't stand 'em.

[Mark Thomas]

I understand that the second release in Neeme Järvi's series of Raff symphonies for Chandos will not only feature the Symphony No.5 Lenore (which we knew) but no less than five other, shorter orchestral works: the overtures to the operas König Alfred, Dame Kobold and Die Eifersüchtigen, the Prelude to Dornröschen and the Abends-Rhapsodie. That's a huge programme to pack into 80 minutes, so I think that we might be in for an exhilarating ride. I just hope that things aren't taken insupportably fast but, judging by the positive revelation that the previous disk (Symphony No.2 and the four Shakespeare Preludes) turned out to be, I'm not pre-judging this one.