Grimm, Julius Otto - Symphony in D minor Op.19 (1875)

[MartinH]

At long last! I've been reading about this symphony for what seems like decades on this site...and here it is. Still surprising that CPO, Naxos, or some other adventurous label hasn't recorded it. It's a pleasant enough work, but honestly it's no earth-shattering forgotten masterpiece. The melodic material isn't memorable, the orchestration very workman-like, no more. Nowhere did I feel any stress and strain, no struggle to break through to the light. Maybe at 37:00 or so there was a short lived attempt at a pedal point to create some tension that Tchaikovsky would prove the master of, but Grimm released it too early. The music moves along nicely, never bogs down. But next to any of the Brahms symphonies it's easy to see why Grimm's is forgotten. Maybe in 1871 it would provide good enough entertainment for an evening, but the competition got very stiff in the next 25 years what with Dvorak, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, and some others. Very please to hear this, though. Sure helps clarify the mid-19th symphony situation.

[Alan Howe]

The melodic material isn't memorable

Well, Gernsheim wouldn't have agreed with that: he evidently remembered the first movement over fifty years later!

And I can recall all four movements in my mind's ear. For me this is an intensely memorable and moving work - joyous too by the end.

BTW I think the Symphony should be described as being in D minor/major.

[Richard Moss]

For some reason my PC will not let me connect to 'Mediafire' (something about an unsupported protocol??).  Anyway, if anyone has available the mp3 file(s?) that are in the link for this work I would really it if someone could e-mail it/them to me.  Having very much enjoyed 'Reverie's' synthesised version on YOUTUBE, I would love to hear the rea\l orchestral thing!

Many thanks

Richard

[eschiss1]

Only if one gets to describe Beethoven's 5th symphony and Brahms' 1st as being in "C minor/major", likewise half of Haydn's symphonies in c (and mutatis mutandis many of his symphonies in other minor keys), likewise- er- I mean- why? What does "D minor" imply, other than the key of the first fast/substantial movement's main theme, that makes it misleading enough in Grimm's case that we should consider using "D minor/major" here?

-Eric, more and more annoyed by online listings at Amazon Music along the lines of "Tchaikovsky 5 in E minor, first movement", "Tchaikovsky 5 in D major, 2nd movement", "Tchaikovsky 5 in A major, 3rd movement", etc, a whole other category of wth unrelated to this.

[Alan Howe]

Only if one gets to describe Beethoven's 5th symphony and Brahms' 1st as being in "C minor/major"

You are quite correct, Eric - thanks. The score clearly says 'D minor'.

[Reverie]

Had a listen to this with the score and enjoyed it. I can understand some peoples reserved reaction. It's a heavy weight for sure and not an instantly appealing work. For me it's form driven at the expense of melodic invention. Having said that the Finale, a kind of perpetum mobile, has delightful melodies over the busy 1st violins. I think this is the most attractive movement.

My only gripe is with regards to this performance - the opening of the first movement. The tempo is completely wrong - it's like wading through thick mud! Awful!

Get a move on!!

[Reverie]

Oh and I forgot. If you want some great tunes from this composer have a listen to his Zwei Märsche (1872)

Perfect for a Morgen aufwachen   

(click below)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeMnMqyScQM

[Alan Howe]

I agree with Martin over some aspects of the performance. The opening is very slow - and the lead-up to the dramatic 'Luftpause' shortly before the end of the first movement is just a bit too laboured to make its full effect. Having said that, though, I don't agree that it's short on melodic invention - just the opposite in fact. My response is therefore to give it repeated listens and see whether the material sticks in the memory. It certainly does for me!

[eschiss1]

BTW approximate timings for the Golo Berg recording. (Also, I do see this is the ensemble that recorded Volbach's symphony for cpo, with the same conductor...)

Sostenuto - Allegro (16:25)
Trauermarsch. Andante. 11:08 (ends 27:35)
Scherzo. Presto. 27:40-32:59 (5:19)
Finale. Allegro vivace. 33:04-42:08 (9:04) - then a few seconds of applause.

[Reverie]

Thanks for those timings.

As I thought the 1st mov is too slow by a full 3 minutes probably because of the Grave tempo for the intro. (it's actually marked sostenuto). The 2nd mov is 2 mins slower. How slow does a death march have to be before we all join the deceased!

The last two movs have it right.

All IMO of course 

[Alan Howe]

I greatly enjoyed the performance. I think extra licence regarding tempi in a live performance is almost inevitable.

[eschiss1]

This would not be the only symphony performance out there to take Andante way too slowly - unfortunately.

[Alan Howe]

Indeed. However, computer realisations are likely to differ from real-world performances where the conductor's interpretation comes into play. That's what makes the latter interesting, surely?

[eschiss1]

True. And some funeral marches are more truly march while others focus on the funereal, arguably. It sounds like this is meant to be more among the former and the performance doesn't -quite- catch that to my ear all the time, but it's not a yes-or-no and I may change my mind.

[Alan Howe]

Grimm's Symphony has been on repeat play for weeks now and I have to say I find the work more and more convincing the more often I listen to it. In fact I absolutely love it - for its generosity of spirit, its melodic fecundity and, frankly, its daring.