Emilie Mayer - Symphony No. 3

[jdperdrix]

I suppose the title "Sinfonie militair" was supposed to be French. "Sinfonie" was acceptable at the time (now spelled "symphonie"). But "militair" always had, and still have, a final "e", in both masculine and feminine forms: "militaire".

[rosflute]

I suppose the title "Sinfonie militair" was supposed to be French. "Sinfonie" was acceptable at the time (now spelled "symphonie"). But "militair" always had, and still have, a final "e", in both masculine and feminine forms: "militaire".

Hmmm! It's German!!

[Alan Howe]

In German (following Haydn) it would be 'Militärsinfonie'. In French - as the new CD has it - it's 'Sinfonie militaire'. The MDG recording has 'Sinfonie militair' (in French), which is grammatically incorrect.

Has anyone seen the score?

[Holger]

Voilà:
https://imslp.org/wiki/File:PMLP856931-MayerE_Symphony3inC_PPN1015735703_strings.pdf
So, "Sinfonie militair" is what is written on the title page indeed. Probably jdperdrix's explanation is quite right (and, of course, Alan is totally correct: "Sinfonie militair" is not German, one could say "Militärsinfonie", "Militär-Sinfonie", "Militärische Sinfonie" or whatever): Mayer wanted to gave the piece a French title and made a grammatical error.

[Gareth Vaughan]

I wouldn't get too exercised about this. Up until the end of the 19th century spelling could be extremely flexible in many languages (e.g. Jane Austen wrote 'ancle' for 'ankle', and in the 1890s there is written evidence of 'ache' appearing in reputable publications as 'ake').

[Holger]

Of course, Gareth's remark is fully valid also for the German language – if you read 19th century German texts you will come across many spelling issues which would have counted as mistakes in later days but these were the times before (Konrad) Duden. I have no idea about the French language, and even less about this particular issue (which is finally a minor one as I agree).

[Alan Howe]

Quite right, both of you.

I've just come back from a walk and was thinking exactly the same thing. What I laid out was what would be correct today; however, uniformity of spelling is, as you suggest, a modern science. What's odd is the fact that 'militair', as a word from French, isn't actually spelt that way (it always has an 'e'). Perhaps both 'M/militär' and 'militair' were in circulation at the time in German-speaking states. And perhaps Emilie didn't know French grammar!

[Holger]

Any idea what's actually on the score?

You can check all the parts on IMSLP:
https://imslp.org/wiki/Symphony_No.3_in_C_major_(Mayer,_Emilie)
As it is explicitly pointed out that the copies of the percussion parts were not written by Mayer herself it seems that all the remaining parts should be due to herself. In any case, the spelling is always "Sinfonie militair" and "Finale Militair".

[Alan Howe]

Apologies, I only spotted the link a few minutes ago - and duly deleted my question!

Of course, whatever the rights and wrongs of the case grammatically speaking, we should run with the composer's designations.

However, the producers of the new CD have clearly decided otherwise!

[Gareth Vaughan]

'M/militär' and 'militair' were in circulation at the time in German-speaking states. And perhaps Emilie didn't know French grammar!

I think you could very well be right, Alan.

[jdperdrix]

As far as I know, "militaire" was never spelled in French without the final e. This title is repeated with the same consistent misspelling on the various parts of the manuscript. Probably a confusion between German and French, between "militär" and "militaire". As I said before, "sinfonie" was a common spelling in France during the 18th and early 19th centuries: Czerny's 2nd symphony is titled "Grande sinfonie". Anyway, "Sinfonie militär" would be incorrect in German, the adjective has to precede the noun. In conclusion, I think the title "sinfonie militair" is a pleasant mix of French and German!

[Alan Howe]

That sounds about right to me!

[eschiss1]

Within France, there may have been more consistency due to the efforts of the Académie française to maintain uniformity in French spelling, syntax, etc. compared to other languages, if I remember, but the suggestion that Mayer may have been making a cognate/parallel from her native German makes sense. (To this day, after all, people very frequently translate B-dur as B major (etc.!) - because "B", no doubt.) [I am aware that this humor may fall flat.]

[Double-A]

Even though this is not about Mayer:  Even in the 1970s our music teacher, Armin Schibler for those familiar with Zurich, made us spell "Sinfonie" and scolded those hard who used the pompous quasi-Greek letters y and ph.

I admit: To this day I find the spelling "Symphonie" (in German) unduly pompous.

[Alan Howe]

The rival recording, plus Symphony No.7, forthcoming from cpo, is now advertised as being available from 22nd August:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/emilie-mayer-symphonien-nr-3-7/hnum/10892972

Performers: NDR Radiophilharmonie, c. Jan Willem de Vriend