Carel Anton FODOR - Symphony 4(?)

[Richard Moss]

Question: Which symphonic work of his is the one on the OLYMPIA label '400 years of Dutch Music vol 2"?  It says on the reverse side of the CD sleeve this is Symphony No. 4 (Op. 19, no key or tempi given) in 1 movement (or at least 1 track, presumably in sections), duration ca.22 minutes.

Browsing IMSLP & Musicweb International gives mention of these Symphonies: Op 5 (No. 1 D maj - this Op No. shared with a concerto?!), Op 13 (No. 2 G maj), Op 16 (No. 3 C min) and Op 19 (also No. 3 in C min) and Symphony No. 10 D maj (WoO)

No mention at all of a Symphony No. 4! (or indeed anything else after No. 3 and  before No. 10)

If anyone can shed any light on what I am listening to (on Spotify) for the 'Symphony 4' work above, it would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Richard

[eschiss1]

the numbering is futzed. I think there's only one C minor symphony by Fodor (qv, not Foder?...) but perhaps different publishers assigned different information, etc.
Even as late as Dvorak, and certainly in Fodor's day, opus numbering was largely (decreasingly, over time) up to the publishers.
Interesting that symphony no.10 and no.1 are both in D; I'd like to assume they've been checked against each other.

[Richard Moss]

Eric,

Thanks for the courtesy of a quick response and the background on 'numbering' uncertainty in that period.  Maybe someone with a friend or connection in the Dutch classical music world and/or their libraries may be able to shed some light.

best wishes

Richard

[Gareth Vaughan]

Nederlands Muziekinstituut, which has a copy of No. 4 - which it describes as Op. 19 in C minor -  gives the movements (5 of them) in its cataloguing on WorldCat as: 1. Largo ; 2. Allegro assai ; 3. Adagio non tanto ; 4. Minuetto (Vivace) ; 5. Vivace agitato. But I suspect the Largo is just the introduction to the Allegro assai, not a separate movement. Just to confuse matters, the University of Utrecht lists a Simphone a grand orchestre, Op. 19, with identical movts, as his 3rd symphony.

Nederlands Muziekinstituut also has a "Simphone a grand orchestre", Op. 13, which it describes as his second symphony (no key provided in cataloguing data).

That's all I can discover at the moment.

[Alan Howe]

You'll see that I've altered the spelling of the composer's name to what I think is the correct spelling.

[Richard Moss]

Gareth,

Again, thanks to, for your quick update - I'm flabbergasted that all you guys can lay your hands on such sources at such short notice.  The Symphony ''4' details you quote appear to correspond exactly to the Symphony '3' on the NM release (which also includes the single movement - or at least single track! - Symphony '2', No. 3 coming in at a tad over 25 minutes.  On the NM version, a largo does indeed preface the main allegro in the first movement, as you had surmised.

However, the Symphony '4' on the Olympia CD I first mentioned is only a little over 20 minutes.  Maybe it is a 'cut' version of the NM work, played as a continuous movement.  I will now have to listen to both and try and see (albeit my memory is now not that retentive)  if that is the case (or not) - I had previously assumed the numbering meant they were different works (mea culpa!).

Best wishes

Richard

[Gareth Vaughan]

OK. YouTube has come in handy. The 2nd Symphony Op. 13 in G can be heard here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaLPZwwSZ-w&list=RDOaLPZwwSZ-w

The 4th Symphony Op. 19 in C minor can be heard here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k50IFScSRWY
And the Olympia recording of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA9VdAewFyA The two performances of Symphony No. 4 are definitely the same work. The Olympia recording, however, takes 22.35 mins, whereas the one played by the Radio Kamer Filharmonie under Frans Brüggen takes a somewhat brisker 20.38.

However, YouTube also has this performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8G5l4jKOR4 described as Symphony No. 3, Anthony Halstead / Netherlands Radio Chamber Orchestra, which is, however, the same work as the two performances given above labelled Symphony No. 4. This performance lasts over 28 mins, but this may be because some repeats have been observed which were not in the other 2 performances (I have not listened to the whole thing, and do not have a score).

[eschiss1]

Unfortunately IMSLP only has, re symphonies of his, incomplete mss parts of the symphony no.10.
There is also an IMSLP category for Carel Anton's brother Charles Fodor.

[Alan Howe]

Gareth: the 'Tweede' Symphony in G Op.13 is actually No.2 - I have corrected your post.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Thanks, Alan. Foolish mistake - of course it is.

[Alan Howe]

This listing...
https://imslp.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Carel_Anton_Fodor
...suggests that No.3 and No.4 may be the same work, with Op.16 (No.3?) being the four-hand version of Op.19 (No.4?)

[Alan Howe]

Thanks, Alan. Foolish mistake.

Not at all. In any case the numbering is so confusing as to make a fool of any of us. Including me.

[eschiss1]

apparently it goes something like eerst, tweede, derde, vierde, etc., I gather.

[Gareth Vaughan]

...suggests that No.3 and No.4 may be the same work, with Op.16 (No.3?) being the four-hand version of Op.19 (No.4?)

Makes sense.

[Richard Moss]

Gareth & Co.

Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to get to the bottom of Olympia 'Symphony No. 4'.

Much appreciated.

Richard