Two new Sterling releases: Graener and Sjögren

[Mark Thomas]

Yes, you may be right. I was only trying to point out, maybe not very cogently, that it's not a simple as pre- or post-1933.

[Ilja]

I've got to agree with both here, to some extent. After the Nazis' ascent to power in early 1933 there was a veritable torrent of 'March flowers': new members of the NSDAP. Partly these were opportunists hoping to gain advantage from the inevitable purges, both some of these were also people no longer afraid to give voice to their opinions. Don't forget the utter chaos Germany had been in since about 1930, and particularly since the November strikes of 1932. With sectarian violence rife, political commitment could lead to fierce reprisals from the other parties, particularly from and against communists and nazis. To lump all 'march violets' under one banner is therefore, again, difficult. Later on, party membership became much more of a legitimate step to boost one's civil career and had less to do with political commitment. But then, nazi policies had by then become much more commonly accepted, and society much more overtly politicised, by that time.

With specific regard to Graener: who wants to read up on Graener's activities as the Berlin head of the Kampfbund, try this article: http://www.jstor.org/pss/4546223. This web site is necessarily more non-committal (http://www.paul-graener.de/en/bio.html), but I seem to remember they used to have an article that defended him more staunchly than it does now.

[Sterling]

Dear friends of the romantic era..
I have not before taken part in the discussion concerning Graener. I find it somehow at risk discussing the personal destinies and merits of a particular composer. It could tend to obscure the music itself. That debate goes on and on in Israel regarding Wagner...
But yes, as a Jew I have been asked how we could release Atterberg for instance in view of his opinion in the thirties...where he argued against Jews coming to Sweden...literally, he and several other cultural personalities here more or less by their views sending Jewish musicians to the death camps.
If one is to take these things in consideration when releasing the CDs one would tend to make other restrictions on releases apart from musical values...and that is what the Nazis did themselves!
And the communists....
So do enjoy the music in itself...for what it sounds. Enjoy it as it is...regardless of the fate of the composer himself.
Bo Hyttner, Sterling

[Mark Thomas]

Welcome Bo!

[Ignaz Brüll]

Many artists (Leonardo!) including some composers were also paedophile... We have to judge them for their output, not for their lifestyle, otherwise I'm afraid we should throw away 50% of our CDs...

[TerraEpon]

I've seen some posts on another forum from people that want to toss their Pletnev discs for just that reason.

But seriously, if one wants to go that far, why not just avoid Wagner too?

[eschiss1]

I'd hate to lose Szymanowski, if indeed the claims about him are true also.

[Ilja]

I've seen some posts on another forum from people that want to toss their Pletnev discs for just that reason.

But seriously, if one wants to go that far, why not just avoid Wagner too?

As said before, this is a minefield. Dismissing Wagner because of his anti-semitism is tricky, not in the last place because he's such a domineering factor in musical history. It's much easier to dismiss someone like Von Schillings because he was so much less of an important figure. It's a bit like the Jim Hacker Quote from 'Yes Minister':
Hacker: 'We should defend the weak against the strong'
Sir Humphrey: 'Why not attack the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, then?'
Hacker: 'The Soviets are TOO strong'

Hypocritical? Yes, but practical too. But to close one's eyes to extraneous factors would IMO be a mistake, too. After all, we're dealing with products of the same minds that thought up the music we love so much. But keeping someone's political, religious or philosophical considerations in mind wouldn't per definition ruin the joy of listening to his/her music, would it?

For me (and only for me) the situation changes once someone has been actively involved in persecuting people. Spewing abstract ideas is one thing - actually going out of your way to cause personal harm is quite another. But again, Wagner would become problematic, because he did harm to so many people (albeit primarily out of expediency, it seems) - or Furtwängler, whose general portrayal as a 'good guy' cannot totally hide his co-operation with that evil regime.

[jerfilm]

Back on topic, the release is now available in the states.  At least Records International has it.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

"If one is to take these things in consideration when releasing the CDs one would tend to make other restrictions on releases apart from musical values...and that is what the Nazis did themselves!"

I've only just picked up on this thread. For me Bo (and how welcome he is to the site!) has got it 100% right in the above quote. For myself, I happen to think Christianity has had a wholesale damaging effect both on humanity and countless individuals. But if I happened to run a record company I would hardly use that view to squash Bach cantatas and many other things. Doing so would be akin to the crimes brought about by the god-squad.

Peter

[Alan Howe]

For myself, I happen to think Christianity has had a wholesale damaging effect both on humanity and countless individuals. Peter

Please let us remember that this site is for the discussion of music, not the expression of views potentially offensive to others.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Apologies if I offend anyone. It was a personal opinion, but one I'm happy to defend (outside this forum!)

I'm actually in full agreement with you, Alan. I was merely getting a little impatient with other contributors whose comments above I construed as indicating the view that a composer's proclivity to antisemitism, racialism, paedophilia, sexism, ageism, speciesism, vegetarianism, carnivourism, or whatever might constitute a reason for not listening to their music. If it is good music I want to hear it, putting to one side any views I might have about the particular composer's beliefs, habits, motivations or weltanschauung. I just thought: well, why not add Christianity or any other religion to the list? Nietzsche after all proclaimed 'With God, war is declared on life', and I find his critique entirely convincing. Hugely implausible, but if Hitler happened to write a good symphony I'd want to hear it.

But let us restrict discussion to music. That is infinitely more interesting than my particular personal viewpoints!

Peter

[Alan Howe]

Apologies if I offend anyone. It was a personal opinion, but one I'm happy to defend (outside this forum!)

That's definitely the best place. Thank you, Peter.

[mbhaub]

At last I have received the Graener disk from Sterling. Politics aside, I just want to add that it is lovely music -- that's a great description. The Wiener Symphonie is inoffensive, takes no risks, and is totally forgettable -- just a nice bit of writing and pleasant enough.

I really enjoyed Turmwachterlied quite a bit -- dramatic, powerfully orchestrated (very tastefully, too) and well worth anyone's attention. Would make a great concert piece to take the place of over-played Strauss for sure.

The Sans Souci Flute piece is very nice, too. Maybe too nice -- there are no fireworks in the flute part for sure. Pleasant enough.

The Flute Concerto is a real winner. I've never heard it before but I'm sure glad I did. I liked it so much that I'm letting a flute player friend borrow the disk, I'm going to get a score, and get this played locally. Very accessible music. Audiences would enjoy this "modern" music for sure.

I've looked through score for Waldmusik on imslp.org. Looks fascinating -- let's hope a recording is forthcoming!