Václav Jindřich/Wenzel Heinrich Veit: Symphony in E minor, etc.

[Ilja]

We all have to consider this in the light of classical music recording marketing (i.e., little at all). Concert venues do this all the time, though - using a better-known entity to draw people to lesser-known works, even if the association is ... unconvincing. I've seen a Glazunov overture marketed as "early Stravinskian" a few years ago. So to me, it sounds as though they simply did a copy-paste of the concert blurb, and rather overplayed their hand. Not correct, but neither is it the end of the world.

Hijacking Joachim, if it's true, is far worse in my view.

[Alan Howe]

I took delivery of the CD this morning - and guess what? The booklet makes absolutely NO mention of the fact that the Romanze & Finale are identical with the last two movements of Joachim's VC2. The only mention of Joachim is a passing reference to him playing second violin in the London Beethoven Quartet. Is this igorance or just plain dishonesty?

[terry martyn]

I feared, Alan, that the booklet would be silent.  Perhaps it was printed before the conductor gave that specious explanation, out of ignorance. and then the booklet was persevered with, out of mendacity.  Personally, I think it´s disgraceful that the innocent buyer is being kept in the dark.

[Alan Howe]

The notes on the music were written by the conductor!

[terry martyn]

I am actually feeling rather angry about that.  The Symphony is pretty catchy, and, as I personally like possessing CDs, I would have bought it, despite the expensive price. But I don´t see why I should pay that price for what is looking more and more like economy with the truth.

[eschiss1]

If your barometer for early Stravinsky is his first few published works, Glazunov being early Stravinskyian isn't a stretch, just a causal reversal (but causality wasn't stated.)

[Alan Howe]

So: ignorance or dishonesty? Or the former followed by the latter after the truth emerged?

[Alan Howe]

I found this article (in Czech) and can see that Joachim is mentioned in reference to the Romanze & Finale (foot of 2nd column), but can't work out how to translate it. Can anyone help?
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10228349144700563&set=a.10208648257390693

[Alan Howe]

I've changed my mind somewhat about the Symphony now that I've listened to it through carefully a couple of times. I still think the first movement could be swifter in this performance, but it's clearer to me now where it 'sits' historically, i.e. somewhere between Beethoven/Schubert and Mendelssohn. Overall it's well done here, with nice pointing throughout, although ideally it needs a bigger orchestra.

How on earth anyone might believe the Romanze & Finale movements are by Veit, though, is still quite beyond me.

[Mark Thomas]

Because they wanted to believe it, Alan.

[Alan Howe]

Oh, quite. That much is obvious. But that makes them purveyors of fakery, not serious musicologists. I've encountered many people whose basic attitude is 'Don't confuse me with the truth', but this takes the proverbial biscuit. And they'll be found out...

[semloh]

They have been .....

[Mark Thomas]

can't work out how to translate it. Can anyone help?

Here's Google's translation from the scanned page's Czech (I've highlighed the relevant sentences):

"Václav Jindřich Veit (1806-1864) was one of the leading figures in Prague's musical life. He was a respected and popular composer. an excellent pianist and a respected music organizer. His work is dominated by vocal and chamber works, but there are also several remarkable orchestral compositions. Today, Veit is a composer perfectly "forgotten", his music has completely disappeared from the concert stage. So we can only admire the entrepreneurial courage of the Nibiru publishing house, which at the end of last year launched a CD with three of Vito's most interesting orchestral works. The recording opens with the Concert Overture, Op. 17 from the early 1840s. The song consists of a slow introduction and an allegory main part. It impresses with its compositional sophistication and, above all, its masterful instrumentation, which we will appreciate all the more considering that Veit was essentially a self-taught in the composition. The final composition of the disc is the magnificent four-movement Symphony in E minor, Op. 49 from the late fifties. The composition was performed in the Gewandhaus in Leipzig shortly after its completion - October 20, 1859, and shortly afterwards, on November 29, 1859, it was also performed (under the direction of František Škroup) in Prague. The extraordinarily mature work is characterized by a generous formal layout (footage reaches almost 40 minutes) and extraordinary intellectual and compositional ingenuity. The instruction then far exceeds the concert overture in color. The "Historical Judgment" was unfair to this symphony - the composition would have nothing to do with the works of Veit's much more famous "romantic" contemporaries and would certainly deserve more frequent performances. The publisher included Romance and the finale for violin and orchestra with the Concert Overture and Symphony in E minor. The manuscript of this work is stored in the music history department of the Czech Museum of Music. The composition does not have an opus number and the manuscript does not contain any more detailed information - neither about the time of creation nor about the performance. Veit does not even mention this work in any of the lists of his compositions. And to make matters worse, shortly before the "baptism" of this CD (which took place on December 3, 2021 in St. Lawrence's Church in Malá Strana), one of the members of the Larmonio Terrena Orchestra found out by chance that Romance and finale figure as the second and third movements. in Violin Concerto No. 2 in D minor (In Ungarischer Weiset op. 11), by one of the most famous violinists of the 19th century, Joseph Joachim (1831-1907). The two movements are Veit and not Joachim, but to be sure of this we will need a more thorough detective search. On interpretative side, this recording deserves only words of praise.N Zdeněk Klauda elaborated all three works in the smallest detail, almost as if it were The orchestra plays extremely colorfully (excellent breaths) and inspired, and most importantly - all orchestral players play with obvious personal interest. and Milan Al-Ashhab His performance in Romanci and the finals - whoever the author is - is amazing. The artist masters a great technique that he can apply perfectly (Joa-chim's Second Violin Concerto is one of the most difficult violin concerts ever), and emotions gush from his playing. It has a wonderful instrument by Nicola Amati from 1662 with a beautiful full, warm honey tone, which in slow cantilenas it "catches the heart". The listener will certainly also appreciate the high-quality and sculpturally captured sound of the recording as well as the carefully prepared four-language booklet with a well-founded and lively stylized text by Jaromír Havlík, with accompanying commentary by conductor Zdeněk Klauda and a rich pictorial appendix. All this is offered by the Nibiru publishing house in an exclusive polygraphic processing with a reproduction of a magical image by Bohuslav Reynek on the front cover."

[Alan Howe]

Thanks, Mark! So, one of the members of the orchestra found this out! It's clear now that the recording had been signed off and the 'error' only discovered afterwards. That's bad enough, but to argue that the Romanze & Finale is actually by Veit in the face of all the stylistic evidence smacks of an attempted cover-up after the event.

[Alan Howe]

By the way, Ilja's mention of Carl Loewe (whose two symphonies were written in 1834/5) is entirely appropriate here. They too sound very like they belong in the gap between Beethoven/Schubert and Mendelssohn - ignoring, of course, the latter's very early No.1.