Emilie Mayer Symphony 6 performance in Germany

[Alan Howe]

It's more than a fad and a fashion, Ilja. We are seriously being asked to believe (a) that she's on a par with the great composers and (b) that she's Europe's greatest female composer. This is (a) clearly and provably nonsense and (b) meaningless hyperbole. 

I mean, let's get real here...

[Double-A]

I googled the author of this book a while ago.  She has written a series of biographies of a rather varied set of people.  But she has no particular expertise in music, Mayer is the first musician  among her "victims".  The big mouth title she has chosen is the consequence of that IMHO.  I don't think there is much useful information in the book.

BTW recently I found in various paragraphs on the composer an "eating disorder" that poor Emilie allegedly suffered from. I suspect this bit of guesswork first appeared in this book.  Of course there were exactly zero physicians who would have arrived at such a diagnosis among Mayer's contemporaries...

[Alan Howe]

Thanks for dragging us back to reality!

[eschiss1]

"Of course", you say.
Anorexia was accepted "as a psychogenic disorder in the late 1800s" so it depends on which eating disorder and when. (Liliana del'Osso et al, "Historical evolution of the concept of anorexia nervosa and relationships with orthorexia nervosa, autism, and obsessive–compulsive spectrum", Neuropsychiatr Dis Treat. 2016; 12: 1651–1660. See NCBI.)

[John Boyer]

If I were to guess what year the composer of this symphony was born, I'd say 1785, 1790 at the latest.  It's so firmly rooted in the classical period, so utterly backward looking, so behind the times (as is everything of hers that I've heard), that it's difficult to believe it was written by a composer younger than Mendelssohn, Chopin, Schumann, or Liszt. Oh well, to each his own.

[Double-A]

I stand corrected, Eric. I remember from my youth when anorexia appeared in the public press as a major problem for young (mostly) women.  I am still wondering where this eating disorder of Mayer's suddenly appeared from. In spite of the venerable age of anorexia Mayer's "eating disorder" was never mentioned until about two years ago and now we find it in many places.

My opinion on the book is low for the reasons I mentioned but obviously my opinion on Mayer herself is not at all dependent on the book.  BTW, John: If you had to guess Korngold's birth date from his music which year would you guess? 

I'd say what is good for the goose...

[eschiss1]

Korngold's: based on which work? (And even his somewhat early works - the sextet, eg - have a very early 1900s, but not late 1800s, "voluptuousness"...)

[John Boyer]

BTW, John: If you had to guess Korngold's birth date from his music which year would you guess? 

I'd say what is good for the goose...

Well, I'll take Eric's helpful hint and ask, "Which one?"  So, to help my case out, I'll select his closest brush with atonality, the three Kaltneker songs of Op. 18, and guess...hmmm...1897?

[Alan Howe]

And with that, back to Emilie Mayer, please.

[John Boyer]

Bringing it back to Mayer, I think with her work being so retrograde there's not much value in comparing her to Schumann or Mendelssohn merely because they were contemporaries. Stylistically it would be like comparing the piano music of Schoenberg and Rachmaninoff just because they were contemporaries too.  Added to this is that she's just no Schumann, Mendelssohn, Chopin, or Wagner no matter what her style.

Instead, perhaps it would be better to compare her against those composers whose sound world she emulates. That is, the world of Beethoven and the composers who followed him. Of course, I don't suggest an uneven comparison against someone like Beethoven, but perhaps we can compare her to Czerny, Ries, or Hummel and then assess where she stands.

[Alan Howe]

I have suggested that her symphonies don't even bear comparison with certain neglected works by her contemporaries, e.g. Kufferath, Rufinatscha and Grimm.

[rosflute]

Bringing it back to Mayer, I think with her work being so retrograde there's not much value in comparing her to Schumann or Mendelssohn merely because they were contemporaries.....but perhaps we can compare her to Czerny, Ries, or Hummel and then assess where she stands.

With all due respect, I would suggest that you study more closely some of all the scores that you mention.  Texture-wise, you may be hearing a superficial resemblance to the music of 100 years earlier, but harmonically there is no comparison.

[Alan Howe]

The real issue, though, is whether EM's symphonies really impress themselves in a way that her famous contemporaries do. And, as I've said before, there just aren't the sort of heart-stopping moments that characterise, for example, Schumann 4, let alone the more advanced idioms of the best of her unsung contemporaries. For all her talent, they just don't cut it at the highest level.

[Mark Thomas]

I think we're getting to the stage in this thread where previously stated positions are just being repeated, so perhaps we can give this topic a break for a while until someone has got something new to say, or permanently if there isn't anything more to add? Seems to me we know where everyone stands and there isn't going to be a consensus.

[Alan Howe]

...and we've wandered off the topic anyway. Mea culpa.