Emil Hartmann - Symphony 'No. 7' D min (Op. 49, 1893)

[Richard Moss]

Does anyone have any information on this work.  All I've found is it being listed in WIKI (which says his first three (early) symphonies were not given 'numbers' when published, hence this being published as 'No. 4'.  If those early three are included, then this is his 7th symphony. 

I can find no recording nor even comments about it.  also, although WIKI gives this as OP. 49, elsewhere I've seen that same number attributed to his PC (which I have under OP. 47 - hope that's correct!)

Any info appreciated.

Cheers

Richard

[Reverie]

There is some confusion re the numbering of the symphonies. Op 49 is indeed the 7th symphony (was the 4th)

Op. 42, the 6th was published as No. 3.

Op. 34 the 5th published as No. 2

Op. 29 the 4th published as No. 1

Needless to say there a three earlier symphonies but I'm not sure where the scores are located? Somewhere in a Danish library presumably.

There's youtube of the symphony no 7 (old no4) here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxG5BI41-Jk&t=211s

[Richard Moss]

Reverie,

Tks for the comments but following your YOUTUBE link, it refers to another symphony (i.e. the E-flat one Op 29, not the D minor one Op 49).

Perhaps referring to the (WIKI) Opus Nos. list is less ambiguous than usnig 'Symphony No. xx' ?

Cheers

Richard

[Alan Howe]

At this point it would really help if we could have a full listing of Hartmann's Symphonies, including opus numbers, dates, key signatures, former and corrected numbering, etc. as I am now thoroughly confused!

So, is this correct?>>>

No.1 D minor, Op.6
No.2 E minor, Op.9
No.3 B flat major (1871)
No.4 (pub. as No.1) E flat major, Op.29 (1879)
No.5 (pub. as No.2) A minor, Op.34, 'Fra Riddertiden' (1887)
No.6 (pub. as No.3) D major, Op.42 (1887)
No.7 (pub. as No.4) D minor, Op.49 (1893)

[Alan Howe]

By the way, from what I've heard, I don't find Hartmann a very inspiring composerof symphonies. His father's two are much more interesting.

[regriba]

According to Inger Sørensen's biography of Emil Hartmann (unfortunately available in Danish only), it was the composer himself who decided to call op. 29 "symphony no 1", apparently discarding the first three symphonies as juvenilia. This in spite of the fact that one of them had been performed several times in Berlin while Hartmann stayed there. One reason could be that, when he got to Leipzig and the Gewandhaus orchestra rehearsed the symphony, the musicians declared that while the themes were very beautiful in themselves, the working out of them was insufficient with too little counterpoint. They decided not to perform the symphony.

While I haven't heard a note of any of the symphonies, it is my impression based on what else I have heard by Emil Hartmann that he was content to compose within the lyrical Nordic tradition of his brother-in-law Gade. Already in his lifetime he was accused of being unoriginal and at one point even had to recompose a movement from a symphony because people thought it was so close to Gade's 4th that it almost amounted to plagiarism. But if you don't mind the absence of a sense of strife and confict, and like mellifluous, lyrical music, then I think you will enjoy Emil Hartmann.

It is, however, rather striking that while complete cycles of almost all other 19th-century Danish symphonists of note (Gade, the elder Hartmann, Hamerik, Lange-Müller etc.) have been recorded, and much else by Emil is also on disc, as yet no company has shown any interest in the symphonies.

[Alan Howe]

There are performances on YouTube in poor sound. Do listen for yourselves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxG5BI41-Jk  (No.4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQa44nbr1M  (No.5)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrs3LyLPzTE   (No.6)

(Numberings as in my listing, above.)

[Reverie]

Sorry for my dud link Richard.   

However you now have a deal of information on Emil posted above.

I have studied the 1st movement of the 5th Symphony ( now let's get it right - the one in A minor ) and found it very tuneful, orchestrated with assurance and well balanced in terms of form. It's rooted very much in the Germanic tradition but with nordic (ish) lyricism.

[Richard Moss]

Thanks to UC members for their contributions.  Did Inger Sørensen's biography mention the '7th' (as per Alan's listing of his seven symphonies. As a 'completist' (Mark's affliction too, I believe??) it is a little frustrating that there appears to be no (readily found) mention of the 7th on the web apart from that WIKI listing. 

An interesting  point too that none of the usual Scandinavian sources (e.g. Dacapo, SIMAX, Musica Sveciae etc.) have not done ANY of his symphonies (unless I've missed them somewhere), never mind the whole cycle. Do  we have any information on whether there are extant scores for these works - presumably at least those for the YOUTUBE performances they must exist for those performances to have been possible.  What about the others?

From memory (dodgy at the best of times and more so as I haven't played Hartmann's works for a while) I agree his work isn't 'top drawer' but it is a pleasant listen and I don't feel the need to 'skip' tracks (as I find is often the case with so-called 'late' romantic works).

Cheers

Richard

[regriba]

Yes, the 7th is mentioned in some detali in the biography (but of course as the 4th, since that was the numbering that Hartmann himself used). Actually that was the symphony whose slow movement was so close to the correspoding movement in Gade's 4th symphony that the composer had to rewrite it. Hartmann had a very strained relationship with the Danish critics, and this was easy prey to them. One critic even printed the notes in his review to show that the two themes were identical.

According to the worklist in the biography, the scores of symphonies 1-3 (or 4-6) were published, but the d minor remained in manuscript. However, Danish regional orchestras performed these works with some regularity until the 1960s (I think the performances on youtube are from radio transmissions of these), so there would be a chance that performing material exists somewhere.

[eschiss1]

a quick search of DKB reveals manuscript material of op.49.
" Detaljer
Titel
Sinfonie Nr. 4, D-moll. Op. 49.
Ophav
Emil Hartmann
Beskrivelse
Ms. Autograf og afskrift.
Format
1 partitur + stemmer"

[Richard Moss]

At least it would seem that some of his symphonies have extant scores which may get a modern recorded airing one day but a full cycle now seems even more 'unlikely'.  Que sera!

Thanks for all the updates guys.

Cheers

Richard 

[eschiss1]

By extant you seem to mean typeset and/or published. There's nothing non-existent about the score of no.7!
Still - Given how often people apply themselves to typesetting mss now and it's easier than then, 1, that there's almost certainly a Emil Hartmann Society , 2, and that the location of the mss score and parts of op.49 is a known location @ a known library that digitizes (for a fee, I think), why is it less likely now? You've lost me wholly.

[Gareth Vaughan]

I do tend to agree with Eric. I would have said a complete cycle was MORE likely than hitherto, given the availability of performance material.

[Alan Howe]

Would that even one of his symphonies received a commercial recording.