Franz Lachner

[Alan Howe]

As a late-ish convert to the (Franz) Lachner cause, especially the symphonies (i.e. mainly Nos. 5 and 8 on MP), I wonder whether any friends would care to give me their reactions to his music?

Calling John White: what would you say, John, makes Lachner so special?

[EarlyRomantic]

Hello Everyone, My pulse quickened to see "Franz Lachner" in the headline!I'm grateful you chose him. I'll never forget my first impression of him: One evening the radio emitted the enchanted, atmospheric opening of his  5th symphony. Truly, I was transfixed.This was music for "me".I personally, emotionally, and aurally identified deeply with it instantly.Subsequently, much of his music resonated deeply as well. Scholastically, I KNOW  that his music lacks the "sacred fire" which imbues His close friend Schuberts music, but it breathes the same air.They are "in the same room" together.If Schuberts music is a dazzling cobalt blue in color, and Lachners is a more pastel hue, like aqua, aren't they both achingly beautiful colors? Why wouldn't we need and be thrilled by both of them, have a deserved place in a palette for them both?For me, and, I hope, others, he has enough melodic fecundity, romantic coloring to his harmony, and passion to elicit  enjoyment, interest, and admiration. We were so tragically deprived of Schubert.Why can't we enjoy Lachner as a very pleasant, meaningful extension or relative?As with Spohr, let's not let "Biedermeier" be a pejorative. If Schuberts fragrance is faded because he was cut short,  I say we inhale deeply of Lachner(AND his brothers Ignaz and vincenz)! There is so much music to be mined from the depths. I'm so disappointed that many projects of his music have been suspended. @ least we know that as long as we are united in this cause, hope is possible. We've seen (and induced) it before! To this end, I have to reveal that Mr. White is an unsung hero of mine, for his indefatigable sanctioning of Franz Lachner. I hope he gets to hear his beloved Lachners music more than I hope I get to hear it myself.If he does, I hope much of the attribution of that coming to pass goes to him. What can we do, most vitally and practically, to hasten this? It's a wonderful time to be one of "us"! (Look  what's coming to us from Chandos in 2011!) Also, Albion, Thank you so much for the extravagant donation of music you've given all of us!I'll remember the opening pages of this year by the new gifts of music you gave us.I think " Paradise and the Peri" has been especially special to me! Let's rally around John White beneath Lachners banner.Let's amass the vast intellect and resources of all of  you  in his cause. Who feels the same?!

[Alan Howe]

What an inspiring post - thanks so much. Any more from anyone else?

[Balapoel]

Hi Alan,
I second EarlyRomantic's post, for many of the same reasons. While Franz Lachner can be long-winded, particularly in the 5th symphony (I prefer his more taut last symphony in g minor), I find that he combines two facets that I look for in a composer: melody and inventiveness/capacity for structure and development. I only have 10 of his chamber pieces, 3 of his orchestral suites, the Requiem, and 3 of his 8 symphonies (all that are available I believe), but what I've heard leaves me interested in hearing more.
Cheers,
Balapoel

[eschiss1]

Slightly offtopic - BSB recently uploaded a symphonic movement of his and I wonder if anyone knows his symphonies well enough to be able to tell me whether this Andante they've scanned and uploaded from his manuscripts - Here - is perhaps an early draft in full score of a movement that turned up later in one of the 8 symphonies? It's in D major clearly, it's not from symphony 1, 5 or 8 I'm pretty sure, indeed  unless Lachner wrote his andantes in distant keys from the main keys of symphonies (eg a D major andante in an E major symphony like sym. 4 or an E-flat major symphony like sym.1) there's only so many symphonies of his that it actually could belong to - like sym. 2, 3, 6 or 7 (pretty sure it's not from sym. 5 either...). But if it is from one of those at all, which one? (It -could- be from the unpublished sym. 4, of course, too, despite the key.) Bayer Library Munich estimates 1836 suggesting sym. 6 (again, if it belongs to a contemporaneous symphony at all)- which would be a bit weird since sym. 6 is itself in D major, but (1) the Andante might have changed key before it entered the symphony (in which case too all bets are off as to what symphony it's in - it might have changed tempo indication too and only comparing the score and details will do, not just 'andante/D major') // (2) having a slow movement in the same key as the symphony is not unknown anyway...

ah well. anyway. wanted to upload this to imslp maybe but as part of the larger piece it later became a part of, not as 'unidentified symphonic movement', if I could.
very much like the Franz Paul Lachner I've heard.  and Ignaz too...
Eric

[John H White]

Many thanks, folks, for your embarrassingly kind words. After all, I'm only an old fogie whose been banging on for years about an obscure composer who is probably practically hardly known to anyone outside this forum and no doubt the people in charge of music at the BBC will say rightly so. I'm sure they will say "why bother with the likes of the Lachner brothers when we've got Beethoven, Tchaikovsky and many more up to date composers like Schoenberg and Stockhausen?"
      I first came across Franz Lachner's 1st Symphony back in the late 80's as a sort of fill up to a Marco Polo CD of Spohr's 2nd symphony. At the time, I found it rather run of the mill apart from the fugal nature of the scherzo.
The outer movements reminded me somewhat of Weber, but that was all. Then the bombshell came when Marco Polo issued a CD of No 5. So majestic, I could hardly believe it was by the same composer--- the only previous symphony I could really compare it  with was Beethoven's 9th!
   In my opinion most of the generation of symphonists that followed Beethoven merely built on the first four symphonies as their models but Lachner boldly marched off into "Ninth Symphony territory". However Lachner produced a new symphonic sound of his own
with colourful orchestration, employing particularly the brass and woodwind sections to great effect. Furthermore, he appears to be a master of counterpoint---that course of lessons with Simon Sechter certainly paid off! Oddly enough, none of his good friend Schubert's symphonic style seems to have rubbed off onto him. However, Franz Lachner's string quartet in A Op. 76 sounds to me like pure late Schubert from beginning to end.
    Of course, I could ramble on ad nauseam  about the Lachner brothers and their music, but I shall try to sum up by suggesting that Franz Lachner forms the missing link between Beethoven/Schubert and Bruckner/Brahms in the 2 halves of the 19th Century, most of which he and his 2 two younger siblings lived through. For more details about the Lachner family and their music, I suggest you contact Dr Harald Johannes Mann from their home town of Rain am Lech, who appears to be the leading authority on the subject. It would be nice if a German scholar on this forum could produce for us an English translation of his book on the Lachners. How about it Alan?
P.S. From what our conductor friend, Chris, who has studied the score, says, if this stray slow movement contains a double fugue, it is probably from No 6. Anyway, I'd be interested to know how to download it please.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

I'm grateful to you, John. I noticed your advocacy of Franz Lachner, and decided to give him a go (so to speak). Previously I had only heard the early Septet in E flat major of 1824 - which I thought a fine work but perhaps hardly sufficient to set the world on fire.

So I sought out the Marco Polo recording of Symphony 5. What a very grand and majestic work, with some lovely things in it. Thank you - without your enthusiasm for the work I doubt if I would ever have heard it, and it is far too good a piece to miss!

But you now get me into expensive habits, for I have decided that I'd be a far happier man if I managed to get hold of the Rodin Quartet performances of the string quartets! Alas, those Amanti CDs seem hard to obtain, and are also unduly expensive. Would I regret the expense?

Peter

[eschiss1]

P.S. From what our conductor friend, Chris, who has studied the score, says, if this stray slow movement contains a double fugue, it is probably from No 6. Anyway, I'd be interested to know how to download it please.

go to this URL.

use the arrow keys ( >, < ., +5, +10...) to find out where you want to start and end your download, if desired- not necessarily at page 1/last of the score...
on the top right of the screen click 'PDF-Download' (you can do this on about 12 different scores on the BSB/MDZ digitization site in a 24-hour period, or so.)
Enter the bounding pages in Erstes bild and Letztes bild if you want a subset of the score rather than the whole thing.
Click Ja to agree to the site's terms.
Click Weiter.
A link will form to a PDF - can link on this and download it. It may produce a warning (in Google Chrome for instance) because its suffix is not PDF (it does create a PDF file, though). No need to worry. Click away.
It's 36 pages (plus a page from BSB) in a slow-movement sonata form; I'll check later about the double-fugue...
Eric

[eschiss1]

P.S. From what our conductor friend, Chris, who has studied the score, says, if this stray slow movement contains a double fugue, it is probably from No 6. Anyway, I'd be interested to know how to download it please.

Hrm.
Page 16, rehearsal letter D. That definitely looks like a fugue, theme on the main theme of the movement, starting in the brass(?), and extending a bit, too.  Not sure whether it's a fugue on two subjects or just a more typical fugue with a countersubject from here, though...
Not an easy manuscript (I've seen several worse) - wonder what the published score of no.6, whether or not this is or is related to the slow movement of no.6, looks like... be good to have that work recorded. I say this though I think I've heard only nos. two of Lachner's symphonies so far, I think (5 and and those once each.
The 4th and 6th orchestral suites are digitized in full score online, btw (at hathitrust.org and no.4 also at IMSLP, no.6 mostly so. Will finish that soon, have been sidetracked.)
Eric

[John H White]

Many thanks for your kind replies, Peter and Eric.
    Peter, I personally find the quartets of Ignaz Lachner more melodious  and more "old fashioned" in style, harking back more towards Haydn and Mozart, whilst those of big brother Franz tend to be more adventurous and romantic in style. I think one of my all time favourite recordings is the 2 CD set of Ignaz Lachner's 6 trios for piano, violin & viola issued at "enormous expense" by the Swiss Claves  record company. However before you lash out any hard earned cash on any of these recordings, providing your computer has a reasonably good sound card, you could go to the Noteworthy Scriptorium, pick up a free copy of Noteworthy Viewer free ware and download some of my transcriptions of Lachner chamber works into Noteworthy score writing software.
Sorry I can't remember the URL off hand but you can either Google for it or go via the Noteworthy web site at www.noteworthysoftware.com.

[Pengelli]

Couldn't resist Lachners Fifth Symphony after reading this. Downloaded the MP3 from Amazon & got £2 off as a special promotion! Now listening on headphones.

[eschiss1]

also, the 6 Ignaz Lachner piano trios seem to all be in score/parts here ?
Eric

[John H White]

Eric, before I realised that you had given me the correct URL, I Googled for "BSB" and got a variety of results varying from British Standards Board to Back Street Boys! I found what I thought I wanted via Wikipedia  and even found "Sinfonie Nr. 6, D-Dur, darius Andante, Autor/Hrsg: Lachner, Franz Paul, Jahr: [ca 1837]" but my lack of knowledge of German couldn't get me any further. Anyway, I finally clicked on what I realised was your link and followed your instructions to download the whole item. On printing it out, I found the handwritten manuscript a bit difficult to read in places but the biggest stumbling block came on the last page where what appeared to be some sort of colour TV test chart card was lying across the bottom, completely obscuring 5 bars of the Cellos and Basses. My lack of German has not enabled me to complain to those concerned at the library. Does your last page also suffer from this problem?

[eschiss1]

that last page is a copy- with territory markers- of the real last page, which occurs a few pages before. they almost always do that... you should be able to find the real last page by going in one page back, I hope.  My copy is 36 pages long - I cut off after that page (in some PDFs from BSB I save after a certain page but this one starts with the right page) and ends one page ( < ...) in from the territory-marker-close - so PDF-saving from pages 1 to 36 should do it.  Sorry, way-off-topic.  Ob Franz Lachner and the forum, BSB has -lots- of Lachner scanned in already (go to
http://www.digital-collections.de/index.html?c=suchen&l=en

and type Lachner into that search box...)

[John H White]

Many thanks Eric. You've been most helpful.