The Longevity of Classical Composers in Geographic Clusters (1750-1899)

[Borowiecki]

Dear All,

I am an economist at Trinity College Dublin and work with a unique data set that covers around 200 prominent classical composers born between 1750 and 1899. (Previous research can be viewed here: http://www.tcd.ie/Economics/staff/borowiek/research.html).

I intend to investigate how geographic clustering of composers or competition between them impacted their health (or more abstract: their subjective well-being). I was wondering whether there is any evidence that locating in one of the centers for classical music had a detrimental effect on composers' health (or happiness)?

I am very gratefull for any thoughts on this topic.
Karol

[febnyc]

I regret to state the obvious, but the longevity of classical composers who were interned at Terezin and other camps (including Auschwitz) - their music branded by the Nazis as Entartete - most certainly was affected/impacted by their environment.  These people were born at the very end of your focus period and this is, I realize, a bizarre case, perhaps out of the purview of your study, but attention needs to be paid.

[Pengelli]

This should key in with my research on the longevity of writers who sit in front of the tv all evening and consume red meat,eggs,butter and vast quantities of beer.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

But what is the point of this research study? What would you know after the study is completed that you didn't know before? What is its 'cash value'? How on earth can you make its 'results' secure? Why composers as opposed to lawyers or postal delivery workers? Do you take into account other related occupations (many composers in your period were primarily - at least in terms of their time - teachers, performing musicians, directors rather than whole-time composers). And why health? And what do you mean by 'health'? For that matter what counts as a 'composer' (it isn't obvious!) And 'geographical clustering' suggests people do not move - and they do! And shouldn't you factor in their assets or income or means of support or what they ate, for these and many many others are causally linked to health? And the 'competition' bit - what does that mean?

Sorry - but this just seems typical of much research that goes on in universities these days: rather pointless, hazy, and the real world is indifferent to it. If I dished out research grants I'd put my money on Pengelli's project - that appears both more potentially illuminating and maybe fun to do.

Peter

[eschiss1]

Now if one asks whether one can hear external conflict in the music... I'm pretty sure the answer you're going to get, in any good double-blind study (I sound like I'm joking...) is... hard to say. Viktor Ullmann's last piano sonatas composed in I do not want to think what conditions in Terezin concentration camp are actually largely unclouded creations, in my opinion, except for ... some things (some of them rather big things, like the finale of the last sonata ).  One could easily program several works by several composers, ask them to guess which was written in situations (known by music historians/biographers to be...) more difficult, and at least suspect that average listeners not knowledgeable about the composers, and guessing just on the basis of the music, would probably guess wrong (if the pieces were chosen right. Depending! Sometimes of course they reflect personal circumstances well enough indeed- on a case-by-case basis and depending on individual psychology...)

Eric, mouthing off, however about matters about which he must admit he knows - less than nothing.

[JimL]

I'm inclined to go along with Peter on this.  Too many variables and too much ambiguity on what qualifies the subject.  However, in the time period in question what would qualify as a "center" for "classical music"?

[Alan Howe]

How about Leipzig?

[Borowiecki]

The best are located in geographic clusters and the positive externalities associated with clusters have a positive impact on the productivity of an individual (Borowiecki, 2010). But it is less clear whether clustering influences also the subjective well-being (SWB). Can there be observed any systematic difference in the longevity of individuals who locate in geographic clusters? And if yes, what is the causal relationship between geographic clustering and longevity? This questions are of considerable importance not only for individuals that are located in ¬geographic clusters, but also for policy makers who try to replicate the success stories of clusters such as Silicon Valley and create, for example, special economic zones in their regions, deciding only upon the productivity outcomes. Without knowledge on the relationship between clustering and SWB, interventionism might cause harmful distortions.

Focusing on classical composers allows me to use an econometric method, so called instrumental variables, that mitigate the critisised omitted variables bias. This methodology allows to estimate by how much has the longevity changed as a result of locating in a geographic cluster. In a previous paper (http://www.tcd.ie/Economics/staff/borowiek/Geographic%20Clustering%20and%20Productivity_Jan%202011_KJ%20Borowiecki.pdf) I have used this approach and was lucky enough to win a number of awards.

Geographic clusters of the analyzed time period are predominantly Paris, but also Vienna and London. I found already some anecdotal evidence on composers' unhappiness in those locations. The year 1778, that Mozart spent in Paris was one of his saddest. In a letter to his father he expresses his grief:

"There is no place in the world like Paris. (...) But I am now here, and must endure it for your sake. I shall be grateful to Providence if I get away with my natural taste uninjured. I pray to God every day to grant me grace to be firm and steadfast here (...)" (Letter of 1. May 1778).

The atmosphere of competition remained in the French metropolis for many following years. One of Wagner's rehearsals in Paris, as described in the composer's memoires, was attended by Berlioz - his rival in opera composition:

"What is certain is that at that time I felt like a little schoolboy next to Berlioz; (...) Berlioz (...) remained silent throughout; he neither encouraged nor discouraged me, but only sighed with a weary smile that 'things in Paris were difficult'" (Wagner, 2008).

I was wondering whether some of you wouldn't be aware of other anecdotes...

[Pengelli]

Phew!

[JimL]

The best are located in geographic clusters and the positive externalities associated with clusters have a positive impact on the productivity of an individual (Borowiecki, 2010). But it is less clear whether clustering influences also the subjective well-being (SWB). Can there be observed any systematic difference in the longevity of individuals who locate in geographic clusters? And if yes, what is the causal relationship between geographic clustering and longevity? This questions are of considerable importance not only for individuals that are located in ¬geographic clusters, but also for policy makers who try to replicate the success stories of clusters such as Silicon Valley and create, for example, special economic zones in their regions, deciding only upon the productivity outcomes. Without knowledge on the relationship between clustering and SWB, interventionism might cause harmful distortions.

Focusing on classical composers allows me to use an econometric method, so called instrumental variables, that mitigate the critisised omitted variables bias. This methodology allows to estimate by how much has the longevity changed as a result of locating in a geographic cluster. In a previous paper (http://www.tcd.ie/Economics/staff/borowiek/Geographic%20Clustering%20and%20Productivity_Jan%202011_KJ%20Borowiecki.pdf) I have used this approach and was lucky enough to win a number of awards.

Geographic clusters of the analyzed time period are predominantly Paris, but also Vienna and London. I found already some anecdotal evidence on composers' unhappiness in those locations. The year 1778, that Mozart spent in Paris was one of his saddest. In a letter to his father he expresses his grief:

"There is no place in the world like Paris. (...) But I am now here, and must endure it for your sake. I shall be grateful to Providence if I get away with my natural taste uninjured. I pray to God every day to grant me grace to be firm and steadfast here (...)" (Letter of 1. May 1778).

The atmosphere of competition remained in the French metropolis for many following years. One of Wagner's rehearsals in Paris, as described in the composer's memoires, was attended by Berlioz - his rival in opera composition:

"What is certain is that at that time I felt like a little schoolboy next to Berlioz; (...) Berlioz (...) remained silent throughout; he neither encouraged nor discouraged me, but only sighed with a weary smile that 'things in Paris were difficult'" (Wagner, 2008).

I was wondering whether some of you wouldn't be aware of other anecdotes...

Mozart's mother died while they were in Paris.  And anecdotal evidence is usually considered empirically weak in the academic community.

[Mark Thomas]

I can't avoid this sounding plonking, but Karol has turned to us for help, so I think it behoves us to be helpful if we can. Criticising his research isn't very welcoming.

[JimL]

Apologies if we've been sounding unwelcoming, Mark.  It's just that it's hard to tell exactly what kind of information would be helpful to his research from the parameters he's provided.

[Josh]

Composers being born after 1750 precludes the inclusion (haha!) of Gossec, but J.P.E Hartmann was born between the years 1750 and 1899.  He died literally weeks shy of his 95th birthday (1805-1900).  Surely, in any study of longevity of composers born on those years, he must stand out as an exceptional case.  Not to mention, he was a pretty fine composer!  The finale of his Symphony #1 (of 2?) contains an exciting climax that worms its way back into my memory, and I listen to it frequently.  I may be alone in this peculiarity, but the guy really did know his stuff... and let's be honest, he had plenty of time to perfect his craft!

As someone who lists "longevity" as one of his absolute top fascinations, I'm very interested in this topic.  I'm somewhat obsessed with supercentenarions, and Jeanne Calment - holder of the longest confirmed lifespan in Human history - is my idol.  It's one of my top topics of conversation in daily life, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Peter_Emilius_Hartmann
I point out J.P.E. Hartmann because he's not well-known to most. If you already have him on your radar, I apologise.

[eschiss1]

Leo Ornstein (1893?-2002) is an ambiguous case - uncertainty about his birth year - and does not fall into the 1750-1899 range either.  (Still! )
Hartmann at 95-odd years is definitely impressive (and so is what I've heard of his music.) Franz Krommer at 72 comes in fairly well for his time (1759-1831) I think.
Other long-lived composers at least born reasonably early inside the range include
Johann Joseph Abert (1832-1915, 82 years - died before his birthday)
Pedro Abril Tirado (1780-1856) (76-odd years - Krommer is maybe not quite as exceptional as I thought )
Léopold Aimon (1779-1866) (86 years)
Carl Alberstoetter (1835-1921) (85-6 years)
George Anderson (1793-1876) (83 years)
&seq. (Hartmann may still be up there, though...)
Eric

[Borowiecki]

A related study to the harshly criticised research idea above appeared today on RTE news: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0413/cluster-business.html

I wish to use this opportunity and thank for all the comments I have received here.