Emilie Mayer Symphony 6 performance in Germany

[rosflute]

Emilie Mayer symphony 6, performance by Ensemble Reflektor in Germany live streaming today (Sunday October 2nd, 2022) on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/Ft1BDlAWUNc

[Alan Howe]

Mayer 6 starts at 49:16. HIP, but a good-sized orchestra. Very enjoyable indeed.

I'm not entirely convinced of the stature/quality of EM's music, though. To pose a provocative question: would we be paying as much attention to it if it had been written by a man?

[rosflute]

Everything is in the interpretation and playing - Holly Hyun Choe understands the score better, I believe, than previous conductors and, together with her young players, delivers a performance that is exciting to hear.
There is subtlety in her writing. She makes, for instance, much use of enharmonic transitions which may not be immediately apparent to a listener. In my opinion, her symphonies can stand alongside those of her contemporary, Robert Schumann.

[Alan Howe]

In my opinion, her symphonies can stand alongside those of her contemporary, Robert Schumann.

I would love to believe that, but in all honesty I can't. Don't get me wrong: I'm truly grateful to have had the opportunity to get to know them, but I don't rate them any higher than 'second tier'. And I'd rate Louise Farrenc slightly higher as a (female) symphonist overall. Consider also what Rufinatscha had achieved by the time EM was writing in the 1850s - and the much more original symphonies by such figures as Kufferath and Grimm.

Which brings us back to the elephant in the room...

[Wheesht]

I'm sure you will agree that it's always good to give reasons in a discussion on the merits of a composer's works. What, then, are your reasons for rating Emilie Mayer's symphonies 'second tier' and no higher, and what is it that makes you rate Louise Farrenc slightly higher as a (female) symphonist than Mayer? Also, do we need to distinguish between female and male symphonists, shouldn't the music speak for itself, regardless of gender?

I for one am happy to learn something here, that is one of my main reasons for being a member.

[Gareth Vaughan]

do we need to distinguish between female and male symphonists, shouldn't the music speak for itself, regardless of gender?

To be fair, I think that was partly Alan's point. The suggestion is that we may be paying more attention to Emilie Mayer's work simply because she is a woman. If the symphonies had been composed by someone called Emil Mayer (say) would we regard them in the same light? We ought to, of course. I know Alan would agree 100% that the music must be allowed to speak for itself, irrespective of the gender of its creator.

[terry martyn]

For my part, I have never been able to warm to Farrenc. But I have a female flautist friend that raves about her, so all this is pretty subjective.
Emilie Mayer's symphonies (with the possible exception of the Third) stand up pretty well in a measurement against her contemporaries. But they aren't particularly individual, and that is what sets them at a lower tier to those of Robert Schumann.

[Alan Howe]

My reason for preferring Farrenc over Mayer is simply that her music 'grabs' me more than Emilie's. I rarely find myself really swept along over the length of a whole movement in any of EM's symphonies. Neither do I find much of a personality in her music - which I do in, for example, Kufferath, Grimm or Rufinatscha.

As for the comparison with Schumann, I just don't think there's any comparison. His symphonies are choc full of memorable material; where in EM's symphonic output is there anything to rival the glorious transition into the finale of Schumann's 4th? Or the high-flown solemnity of Rufinatscha's Symphony in B minor? Or the Bruckner-like theme in the first movement of Grimm's Symphony in D minor?
https://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,8729.msg90147.html#msg90147

All of these are of more interest to me than anything in EM's output.

Back, then, to the elephant in the room...

[Double-A]

I am actually "grabbed" by quite a few of Mayer's symphony movements, e.g. the first of the f-minor or the slow movement of the b-minor (instrumentation not hers, but still).  I prefer them to Farrenc's.  Both of them however did their best in chamber music IMHO (like many male colleagues BTW).

There is one thing about Mayer that occurred to me only recently: Not only isn't she the female Beethoven, in one respect she is Beethoven's opposite.  At the beginning of her career she went straight for the most prestigious genres: the string quartet and the symphony.  Then, at some point around 1860, she gave up on them and proceeded to write in such "minor" genres as piano trios or violin and cello sonatas.  I'd say Loewe ought to have guided her better on this.

I have recently taken a deeper look at her violin sonatas and found some really good music among them.  Unfortunately the only recording of them (Alexandra Malarovich) is not well played (the pianist is ok).  Among other things there is an egregious rhythmic error in the the first movement of the e-minor sonata.

We will never know how a symphony of hers from the 1870s would have sounded.

[Alan Howe]

I'm sorry, but I just don't think that EM is more than a moderately good composer.

Back to the elephant in the room...

[Double-A]

I think the elephant is useless.  It can be made to work either way.

[Alan Howe]

But the question remains. I think her symphonies are in serious danger of being overrated - and over-exposed.

I suspect her real talents lay elsewhere...

[eschiss1]

after 1-3 recordings each and fewer than a dozen performances (including at least (edit: two) in the US, in 2019) this century (I think)?
Sure, ok...

[Alan Howe]

The overrating of her talents results from studies such as this which hails her as 'Europas größte Komponistin' (Europe's greatest female composer):
https://www.amazon.com/Emilie-Mayer-Europas-Komponistin-Spurensuche-ebook/dp/B09JPK5F9X

I'm sure we could all think of at least a dozen female composers equally worthy of the title (notice the book title doesn't specify any particular time-period). It's just plain silly.

[Ilja]

But seriously, why would this be a problem? We have always had fads and fashions in classical music: I remember Simeon ten Holt was everywhere for a while, same with Pärt and others. That usually goes away and if it doesn't, well, it just proves enough people disagree to create a demand. Time will tell.

And to those who claim that money being poured into Mayer performances might be dedicated to some other unsung, I don't think this is a zero-sum game. Obviously, a big part of the attractiveness of performing Mayer is because she was a woman, a half of the population that hasn't exactly been overexposed in the annals of classical music. And that's not new, either: motives other than musical ones have long been a reason for classical music performances, often ones linked to a specific identity: just look at the number of collections dedicated to composers from a certain country or city.

Whatever you think of Mayer's merti as an artist, I am glad she is getting the kind of attention she does because it may bring in a stream of revenue and an audience that might otherwise avoid classical music altogether.