Is it me?

[Alan Howe]

About Till and the Finale of Gernsheim 4, I have to humbly say that I don't notice musical links (apart from a generalized jocular mood).

Hint: it's a pretty obvious violin solo in the Gernsheim...

[Lionel Harrsion]

About Till and the Finale of Gernsheim 4, I have to humbly say that I don't notice musical links (apart from a generalized jocular mood).

Hint: it's a pretty obvious violin solo in the Gernsheim...

Yes, Alan, I can - and not only in that violin solo but also in the section between letters H and I where those little triplet figures develop a chromatic twist at the end, especially when they come in thirds off the beat.   

[Alan Howe]

Oh good. It's you too, Lionel!

[eschiss1]

A recurring passage from the Scherzo of Furtwängler 2 and "The Farmer and the Cowman should be Friends"

[Alan Howe]

What I want to know is whether Gernsheim deliberately quoted from Till Eulenspiegel...

[Lionel Harrsion]

What I want to know is whether Gernsheim deliberately quoted from Till Eulenspiegel...

I think both pieces were written at about the same time (1895) so it could be Strauss quoting Gernsheim!  I imagine that unless it's referred to in correspondence or a diary by either of them, we'll never know.

[Alan Howe]

Till was first performed on 5th November 1895 and Gernsheim 4 on 22nd January 1896!!

[Lionel Harrsion]

Till was first performed on 5th November 1895 and Gernsheim 4 on 22nd January 1896!!

Wow - the things you know!  Ah well then, unless Gernsheim had the chance to examine the score of Till before that performance and was a phenomenally fast worker, I'd reckon it's coincidental!

[eschiss1]

Gernsheim premiere information for a lot of his works here - if you're in the US. That link can be found on the IMSLP category for Gernsheim.  (Apologies for being a party-unmentionable...)

[Alan Howe]

I think you're right, Lionel. It's me after all...

[Alan Howe]

I've just been listening to Stanford 4 and about two and a half minutes into the second movement the music seemed to be morphing into the slow movement of Elgar 2. Is it me - again?

There's more at approx 7 mins in...

[albion]

No, Alan, it's not you: the off-beat falling string semiquavers are common to both works. Given the prickly (not to say acrimonious) relationship between the two composers, it would indeed be the ultimate irony if something of Stanford had indeed found it's way into Elgar's score. Both works are, by the way, quite glorious independent of comparisons.

[Mark Thomas]

I'm not at home at present so: which work came first?

And yes, Albion, you're right - two glorious works.

[eschiss1]

Fairly sure Stanford 4 late 19th c, Elgar 2 first decade of 20th... ah. Stanford 4 - composed 1888, premiered? 14 Jan. 1889. Elgar 2: composed 1909-11 (28 February), published 1911, premiered I gather 1911 May 24 London. (ok... 2nd decade.)

[pianoconcerto]

The overture's eerie precedent is Copland's El Salón México.  Still haven't recognized anything familiar about the violin concerto though.

The late Jose Alberto Kaplan utilized "intertextuality" in many of his works:  that is, he often used well-known works by major composers as a framework (melodically, rhythmically, harmonically, in orchestration, etc.) while superimposing on this local/regional elements that many outside of his original Argentina and adopted country (Brazil) probably would not recognize.  Therefore, many people hear the "plagiarism" without noticing the other creative elements involved.  Kaplan's autobiography has been published in Portuguese.  There he still doesn't give what most people would consider appropriate credit to the composers he borrows from.  I noted in my online piano-and-orchestra discography years ago that Shostakovich's Piano Concerto 2 = Kaplan's Piano Concerto. However, he doesn't mention this or that Bartok's Piano Concerto 3 = Kaplan's Violin Concerto, Ginastera's Piano Sonata 1 = Kaplan's Piano Sonata, etc.